----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-248850997_-_-
Content-type: text/plain
Hello Bernhard,
Thank you for the info. I do have a copy of Mess and had a look at it but
looked no further when I found I did not have a copy of Messp, the Pascal
add-in. I found myself going round in circles with the Heidleberg links! I
would be interested if anybody knows how to access the source of Messp.
Chris Burrows
CFB Software
http://www.cfbsoftware.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bernhard Treutwein [mailto:BdT{([at]})nowhere.xy> Sent: Saturday, 14 February 2004 4:12 AM
> To: skulski{([at]})nowhere.xy> Cc: danforth{([at]})nowhere.xy> Subject: Re: Translators (Re: on mammals and dinosaurs)
>
>
> Hello out there,
>
> there is/was some program called mess by Günther Sawitzky
> at StatLab (University of Heidelberg). It appears to be still
> available here:
> ftp://www.statlab.uni-heidelberg.de/pub/projects/oberon/util/
> see the readme files (bottom).
>
> Although I did not (yet ?) succeed in using it, I had several
> looks at the source of the main module (apparently the only
> available doc). The language extensions are only available
> as (platform independant) "slim binaries" (see note just above
> this link http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/compiler/index.html#report).
>
> Reading the available documentation, is deliberately not a real
> translator,
> but more of an syntax aware & transforming editor, which understands
> C, Fortran, Pascal and Oberon.
>
> I don't know, if the project is orphaned, sleeping or dead
> (Günther S., are
> you listening) and how and or if it can be reanimated ...
>
> regards
> Bernhard
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <skulski{([at]})nowhere.xy> To: "CFB Software" <info{([at]})nowhere.xy> Cc: <danforth{([at]})nowhere.xy> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 7:14 PM
> Subject: Translators (Re: on mammals and dinosaurs)
>
>
> > Chris:
> > > I've also been doing some very preliminary work on the same thing. My
> > > interest is in a Delphi (a.k.a. Object Pascal) to Component Pascal
> > > translator. There are existing Turbo Pascal to Component Pascal,
> > > Modula-2 to Oberon, Modula-2 to Pascal translators but a
> common problem
> > > seems to be that they give up as soon as they don't recognise
> something.
> > > I'm not looking for perfection. Basically I only need something that
> > > will do 70-90% of the job and just highlight the bits that it doesn't
> > > understand.
> >
> > Doug mentioned to me he was thinking of a Fortran-to-CP translator,
> > on the premise that having such translator would be politically
> > correct for physics. Since I have my own extensive experience with
> > Fortran, I tend to be a bit skeptical concerning such a project.
> > We in physics used to do lots of low-level dirty tricks using
> > COMMON and EQUIVALENCE. These two together serve to overlay variables
> > in memory to make type conversions. This is extremely dangerous,
> > error-prone, and indeed the common experience is that you can spend
> > weeks debugging such things, or even worse, you can be getting wrong
> > results for years and never even notice. I vividly remember debugging
> > a large theoretical code where I discovered that various coefficients
> > were taken from wrong places of memory and thus random and completely
> > wrong. Nobody ever noticed because this was a Monte Carlo code, so the
> > results always had some random spread. The particular bugs that
> > I discovered were in second-order corrections that did not contribute
> > much to the result, so nobody noticed this particular part of the code
> > was completely wrong.
> >
> > Fortran programs can be even more interesting. You can check out a
> > scientific package named ZEBRA on the CERN web site. It is huge and
> > nightmarish, what is even mentioned in the documentation. What this
> > library is doing in Fortran, would be unnecessary in CP, Pascal,
> > or even C. This library provides memory management for Fortran-77.
> > That is, the equivalent for "NEW/DELETE", or "malloc/free". ZEBRA was
> > implemented for Fortran-77 using the COMMON and EQUIVALENCE, but boy,
> > what a mess! High Energy Physics is full of folklore stories concerning
> > ZEBRA and other software based on ZEBRA, such as Physics Analysis
> > Workstation (PAW). My friends used to tell me many stories from their
> > own experience with ZEBRA/PAW.
> >
> > I have no idea how you can tell the Fortran-to-CP translator how to
> > translate COMMON and EQUIVALENCE. I guess you would need to allocate
> > a large [untagged] byte buffer and manually perform all the memory
> > management that ZEBRA is doing. However, doing it would be a complete
> > nonsense. You would never need to translate ZEBRA into any language
> > that has memory management, which ZEBRA is a substitute of. This entire
> > huge junk just disappears.
> >
> > Therefore the only approach that makes sense is to re-engineer this kind
> > of legacy software, rather than translate it. This however may be a very
> > politically incorrect idea.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > W
> >
> >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------
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----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-248850997_-_---
Received on Sat Feb 14 2004 - 00:29:58 UTC