----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-302424972_-_-
Content-type: text/plain
Bernhard,
I have not been able to access the site because
"421 FTP Server, is at connection limit, try again later."
This has happened every time I have attempted it over the last
two days.
-Doug
Bernhard Treutwein wrote:
> Hello out there,
>
> there is/was some program called mess by Günther Sawitzky
> at StatLab (University of Heidelberg). It appears to be still
> available here:
>
ftp://www.statlab.uni-heidelberg.de/pub/projects/oberon/util/
> see the readme files (bottom).
>
> Although I did not (yet ?) succeed in using it, I had several
> looks at the source of the main module (apparently the only
> available doc). The language extensions are only available
> as (platform independant) "slim binaries" (see note just above
> this link
http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/compiler/index.html#report).
>
> Reading the available documentation, is deliberately not a real translator,
> but more of an syntax aware & transforming editor, which understands
> C, Fortran, Pascal and Oberon.
>
> I don't know, if the project is orphaned, sleeping or dead (Günther S., are
> you listening) and how and or if it can be reanimated ...
>
> regards
> Bernhard
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <skulski{([at]})nowhere.xy
> To: "CFB Software" <info{([at]})nowhere.xy
> Cc: <danforth{([at]})nowhere.xy
> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 7:14 PM
> Subject: Translators (Re: on mammals and dinosaurs)
>
>
>
>>Chris:
>>
>>>I've also been doing some very preliminary work on the same thing. My
>>>interest is in a Delphi (a.k.a. Object Pascal) to Component Pascal
>>>translator. There are existing Turbo Pascal to Component Pascal,
>>>Modula-2 to Oberon, Modula-2 to Pascal translators but a common problem
>>>seems to be that they give up as soon as they don't recognise something.
>>>I'm not looking for perfection. Basically I only need something that
>>>will do 70-90% of the job and just highlight the bits that it doesn't
>>>understand.
>>
>>Doug mentioned to me he was thinking of a Fortran-to-CP translator,
>>on the premise that having such translator would be politically
>>correct for physics. Since I have my own extensive experience with
>>Fortran, I tend to be a bit skeptical concerning such a project.
>>We in physics used to do lots of low-level dirty tricks using
>>COMMON and EQUIVALENCE. These two together serve to overlay variables
>>in memory to make type conversions. This is extremely dangerous,
>>error-prone, and indeed the common experience is that you can spend
>>weeks debugging such things, or even worse, you can be getting wrong
>>results for years and never even notice. I vividly remember debugging
>>a large theoretical code where I discovered that various coefficients
>>were taken from wrong places of memory and thus random and completely
>>wrong. Nobody ever noticed because this was a Monte Carlo code, so the
>>results always had some random spread. The particular bugs that
>>I discovered were in second-order corrections that did not contribute
>>much to the result, so nobody noticed this particular part of the code
>>was completely wrong.
>>
>>Fortran programs can be even more interesting. You can check out a
>>scientific package named ZEBRA on the CERN web site. It is huge and
>>nightmarish, what is even mentioned in the documentation. What this
>>library is doing in Fortran, would be unnecessary in CP, Pascal,
>>or even C. This library provides memory management for Fortran-77.
>>That is, the equivalent for "NEW/DELETE", or "malloc/free". ZEBRA was
>>implemented for Fortran-77 using the COMMON and EQUIVALENCE, but boy,
>>what a mess! High Energy Physics is full of folklore stories concerning
>>ZEBRA and other software based on ZEBRA, such as Physics Analysis
>>Workstation (PAW). My friends used to tell me many stories from their
>>own experience with ZEBRA/PAW.
>>
>>I have no idea how you can tell the Fortran-to-CP translator how to
>>translate COMMON and EQUIVALENCE. I guess you would need to allocate
>>a large [untagged] byte buffer and manually perform all the memory
>>management that ZEBRA is doing. However, doing it would be a complete
>>nonsense. You would never need to translate ZEBRA into any language
>>that has memory management, which ZEBRA is a substitute of. This entire
>>huge junk just disappears.
>>
>>Therefore the only approach that makes sense is to re-engineer this kind
>>of legacy software, rather than translate it. This however may be a very
>>politically incorrect idea.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>W
>>
>>
>>
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Received on Sat Feb 14 2004 - 20:15:50 UTC