----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1240095187_-_-
Content-type: text/plain
The documention of Mess is still in
<
ftp://www.statlab.uni-heidelberg.de/pub/projects/oberon/PrivateChest>
I've put all the source code of the System 3 version in
<
ftp://statlab.uni-heidelberg.de/projects/oberon/mess/>
This code is "as is". Since the System 3 compilers started allowing
the use of C libraries, this has become the preferred path.
Theory: the front end of Mess scans and parses the source code and
cuts it into chunks. These chunks are then to a pretty printer back
end. If the chunk has an identifiable syntactic role, it is thus
translated from source language to target language. Unidentified
chunks are copied verbatim and highligted/coloured.
The C front end has a lot of open ends- the C syntax description is
in a Coco input file.
In
<
ftp://www.statlab.uni-heidelberg.de/pub/projects/oberon/defor.Mod>
is a skeleton Fortran to Oberon converter which should do 80% of the
work. Again
in System 3 form.
For access from BlackBox/Component Pascal, we used our System 3
system port for BlackBox. This works for Component Pascal 1.3, but
has not been ported to 1.4.
g.
At 18:41 +0100 13.02.2004, Bernhard Treutwein wrote:
>Hello out there,
>
>there is/was some program called mess by Günther Sawitzky
>at StatLab (University of Heidelberg). It appears to be still
>available here:
>ftp://www.statlab.uni-heidelberg.de/pub/projects/oberon/util/
>see the readme files (bottom).
>
>Although I did not (yet ?) succeed in using it, I had several
>looks at the source of the main module (apparently the only
>available doc). The language extensions are only available
>as (platform independant) "slim binaries" (see note just above
>this link http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/compiler/index.html#report).
>
>Reading the available documentation, is deliberately not a real translator,
>but more of an syntax aware & transforming editor, which understands
>C, Fortran, Pascal and Oberon.
>
>I don't know, if the project is orphaned, sleeping or dead (Günther S., are
>you listening) and how and or if it can be reanimated ...
>
>regards
> Bernhard
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <skulski{([at]})nowhere.xy>To: "CFB Software" <info{([at]})nowhere.xy>Cc: <danforth{([at]})nowhere.xy>Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 7:14 PM
>Subject: Translators (Re: on mammals and dinosaurs)
>
>
>> Chris:
>> > I've also been doing some very preliminary work on the same thing. My
>> > interest is in a Delphi (a.k.a. Object Pascal) to Component Pascal
> > > translator. There are existing Turbo Pascal to Component Pascal,
>> > Modula-2 to Oberon, Modula-2 to Pascal translators but a common problem
>> > seems to be that they give up as soon as they don't recognise something.
>> > I'm not looking for perfection. Basically I only need something that
>> > will do 70-90% of the job and just highlight the bits that it doesn't
>> > understand.
>>
>> Doug mentioned to me he was thinking of a Fortran-to-CP translator,
>> on the premise that having such translator would be politically
>> correct for physics. Since I have my own extensive experience with
>> Fortran, I tend to be a bit skeptical concerning such a project.
>> We in physics used to do lots of low-level dirty tricks using
>> COMMON and EQUIVALENCE. These two together serve to overlay variables
>> in memory to make type conversions. This is extremely dangerous,
>> error-prone, and indeed the common experience is that you can spend
>> weeks debugging such things, or even worse, you can be getting wrong
>> results for years and never even notice. I vividly remember debugging
>> a large theoretical code where I discovered that various coefficients
>> were taken from wrong places of memory and thus random and completely
>> wrong. Nobody ever noticed because this was a Monte Carlo code, so the
>> results always had some random spread. The particular bugs that
> > I discovered were in second-order corrections that did not contribute
>> much to the result, so nobody noticed this particular part of the code
>> was completely wrong.
>>
>> Fortran programs can be even more interesting. You can check out a
>> scientific package named ZEBRA on the CERN web site. It is huge and
>> nightmarish, what is even mentioned in the documentation. What this
>> library is doing in Fortran, would be unnecessary in CP, Pascal,
>> or even C. This library provides memory management for Fortran-77.
>> That is, the equivalent for "NEW/DELETE", or "malloc/free". ZEBRA was
>> implemented for Fortran-77 using the COMMON and EQUIVALENCE, but boy,
>> what a mess! High Energy Physics is full of folklore stories concerning
>> ZEBRA and other software based on ZEBRA, such as Physics Analysis
>> Workstation (PAW). My friends used to tell me many stories from their
>> own experience with ZEBRA/PAW.
>>
>> I have no idea how you can tell the Fortran-to-CP translator how to
>> translate COMMON and EQUIVALENCE. I guess you would need to allocate
>> a large [untagged] byte buffer and manually perform all the memory
>> management that ZEBRA is doing. However, doing it would be a complete
>> nonsense. You would never need to translate ZEBRA into any language
>> that has memory management, which ZEBRA is a substitute of. This entire
>> huge junk just disappears.
>>
>> Therefore the only approach that makes sense is to re-engineer this kind
>> of legacy software, rather than translate it. This however may be a very
>> politically incorrect idea.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> W
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>>
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Current posting policy:
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----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1240095187_-_---
Received on Wed Feb 25 2004 - 12:29:38 UTC