(unknown charset) Re: [BLACKBOX] The official position of the Russian OberonCore team about BlackBox Support

From: (unknown charset) Douglas G. Danforth <"Douglas>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 19:00:37 -0700

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[cleaned up version by Doug Danforth (native speaker of English)]

Dear Rene and Oberon Comunity

This message is critical, but should not be considered aggressive or
angry. I agree with Rene that we are now in a trial stage, not because
of the cultural differences but because of age differences. You looked
at my "trial" as a final decision which is not correct. The young are
more interested in hands on development rather than talk, because that
gives one a chance to learn more. Also, if nothing is done, there is
nothing to discuss. I respect everybody for their professionalism and
work. This message is the dialog you asked for and I will try to explain
why I think we should look more at the technological part of the
community development process.

Expert work is important, but the "center" without hands on experience
will be a smouldering stump. If somebody takes the role called for by
Rene it will not be sufficient for the center. As Rene rightfully
mentioned, the community should "accept the services and role" [did Rene
really say that?]. I think that the key word here is "services".
Oberoncore provides the best service forum and bug documentation.
Applause! But the other side of not allowing them to be such a "center"
will be touched bellow.

The next scenario suggested by Rene "community", and agree that for
OberonCore this is the most probable scenario. But do not agree that
BlackBox Component Builder 2.0 should not see the light of day. The
community should make decisions and maintain versions.

The BlackBox community can unify three things: 1. Style (maintain the
minimalism of N.Wirth & A.Einstein). 2. Technological (not yet blooming)
3. Site (the place to solve your working problems).

Minimalism works today but is becoming dangerous[??] and not every user
of Blackbox enjoys this [who doesn't enjoy this?]. That is why the first
role for the community should be to choose the site for hosting
development and distribution. There currently are two centers for doing
this: 1. H. Zinn's Component Pascal Collections and 2. OberonCore
collection. All other stuff is decentralized. As a user and developer I
was not satisfied with either of these. Their editorial system fills me
with fear. Also no bug tracking, user comments, automated version
control, is not efficient and I am sure it slowed the improvement of
components.

We need an issue tracking system and modern code version control
compatible with Component Pascal.

We need a distribution system of components such as Lunchpad for Ubuntu
developers, Apple Store for Apple developers, and PlayMarket for
Android developers.

Those two services can make the community united and encourage it to
grow. That is why as a patriot of Oberon language family I do what I do
— make these services work. All other activity is just conversation that
will lead to "a smouldering stump". I do not want any "center" to
decide how my documentation is written (good or bad), or decide whether
my component is good enough to distribute. Let the users decide by
scoring me and giving me feedback. That is my idea. Make it modern BUT
SIMPLE. Please no Mailing list or words blowing from a forum, rather
GIT+REDMINE+CHAT. Not a static web-site BUT Nicely Automated Component
Store. Not a conference once every 4 years but weekly!!! Oberon Google
Hangouts.

Technical and organizational solutions for these challenges are not easy
and need to be produced from already existent modules and in some cases
developed from the scratch. The Redmine was one suggestion from the
obeoncore.ru forum. I have checked this and invite you to test it as well.

Everything evolves. Robert C. already gave feedback using "git clone"
and the issue concerning zipped archives with BlackBox. Ilya Ermakov
gave me a solution of how to fix the slow server start Issue. Oleg N.
Cher and Roman Miro have started pushing Bug Issues and fixing them. I
have merged OberonCore, H.Zinn, Maliya, Louwe, M.Frei fixes to a master
branch. Peter Kushnir is working on how to integrate odcTOutf8 converter
to Mercurial so one can have a choice between developing systems. Helmut
Zinn has integrated all known fixes to maintain his expert version. We
include all of them in Redmine. Boris Rumshin and Eugeny Temirgaleev do
great work on the forum to make it more friendly for non Russian
language users, and I am sure they will maintain new versions of their
assembly also.

We do know what is happening at Oberon Microsystems AG. Is there a hope
that our activity will make them change their opinion about a FreeBSD
license? :)


Regards Ivan

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Received on Thu Aug 22 2013 - 04:00:37 UTC