Re: [BLACKBOX] Seasoned Linux.

From: [at]} <Norayr>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 02:20:26 +0400

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> Did you ask Josef? I think that some sort of agreement is possible
> between you and him.
Probably.
Actually, several years ago I suggested to publish Ofront sources, and
that's why they are available now. At least the GNU/Linux version.
As far as I understand (and/or remember), Josef himself wouldn't mind,
but he doubt if he has a right to do so. OP2 is a ETH product, and I
guess he does not know whether he is allowed to publish it, and under
which license. (However, I hope it shouldn't be a problem, because Peter
Mueller published Native Oberon at sourceforge. Under ETH license.
) I also remember he had troubles to choose the best platform to publish
and manage the source code.
Anyway, last time I was downloading the source from the Josef's site, it
was distributed under "shareware" license, which states explicitly, that
if Ofront is used commercially, then author should be paid certain
amount of money.
This means that if my fork would be published under any free license,
like GPL or BSD, it would be possible to use it with commercial
purposes. And that contradicts to the current license at the site. And
thus would be a license violation.
But you are right.
 I didn't dare to ask for a permission to publish a port.
Indeed, why should Josef mind?

I have similar problem (it's my own problem, I know that) with the
version of Oberon compiler described in that paper you found :) (my
version) I have developed i386 backend and Linux implementation, then
ported it also to FreeBSD and Solaris. Partially developed amd64
backend, and would be lucky to spend free time porting it to other
platforms. And of course, there's a lot of things to improve. I also
want to modify Stewart Greenhills H2O to generate more bindings for that
compiler implementation. with that, it would be possible to create a
user community around it, which is necessary in order to develop a
technology. I also would like to port Ulm's Oberon library. I've already
done a huge work: merged separate definition and implementation modules
(Ulm uses modula-2 like separate definitions, this comes from the first,
unrevised oberon report). Then, it would be nice to have a crossplatform
implementation of Oberon Gadgets, so Native Oberon's graphic editor
would compile and work on Linux environment natively, not inside an
Oberon OS window. The same code should be able to compile for the
dynamic loader, by inserting dynamic loading calls, and statically, by
generating elf files.
And lots of implementation ideas, some of them are very similar to what
FreePascal team did. However, I know, that sources does not belong to
me. I also know, that ARM version developed by Wirth and modified in ETH
together with Burrows IDE is available for money. That's why I do not
dare to ask for a permission to use my sources, which are basicly the
same compiler modification/port to x86 and Linux. Also, already two or
three years I have a dream about lost compiler sources. It's nightmare,
actually. There I had a presentiment, and printed compiler sources on
the paper. Then put that papers in the drawer. Afterwards, my computer
hard drive crashed, and I was unable to revive the work. That had to be
ok, because luckily I printed the sources. Then, I am searching for the
printed copy here and there, and it's not available. Then I awake.
And in reality, I was talking to the people, discussed ideas with my
friends. I know, I want to make a certain implementation, and I see how
to develop it. However, Oberon-2 is de facto standard of the language.
Most of the people use it, or BlackBox version, which is Oberon-2
extension. (Oberon-07 is descendant of Oberon, not Oberon-2) A lot of
people cannot live without virtual method table. Then, may be it is
feasible just to work on the one of the existing open source Oberon-2
compilers? For me portability is a very important issue. Like you, I
work with several platforms, including x86_64, x86, ARM OABI and EABI,
AVR32... and 8bit hobby platforms :) Then, it's oo2c or Ofront.
But Ofront has uncertain license. Then it's oo2c. That is why I port
Ulm's Oberon library to oo2c currently. I have a limited time, work goes
slowly, but it definitley moves forward.
But then I remember how I personally appreciate Oberon-7 language
variant. And I believe that methods are not necessary. However most (but
not all) of my friends disagree with me. :)
So, it was really hard to decide what to do next. And I must confess it
was extremely hard years in the several aspects of my personal life.
Anyway, I know, that today I would write a better backend than I did
several years ago. I also know that I want to change certain parts of
the frontend. Then, the solution is to just rewrite everything from
scratch. Which eliminates the possibility of having license problems. I
would not use any part of the previous work's code. However, I know the
algorithms by heart. Luckily, software algorithms work only in US and
Australia, and compiler techniques are not patented, but nicely
described in the books :)
I was wondering, why I didn't have that simple solution before. But that
becomes obvious, when someone reminds me how I lived last couple of
years. Then once I have seen a same dream about the lost compiler, but
with the major difference: I eventually found the printed version of
the compiler, the one I lost and was searching in my dreams for years.
Now I understand that my unconsciousness was talking to me by using it's
methods, alarmed about the anxiety I had about this.
I have a lots of everyday work, but now I know where to move next and
what to do. After I finish my current oo2c work.

Sincerely,
Norayr Chilingarian

On 01/13/11 00:40, Wojtek Skulski wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2011, Norayr Chilingarian wrote:
>
>> I know, that via-c compilation is often not appreciated by purists, but
>> did you try oo2c ?
>
> Not yet.
>
>> I would publish my ports of Ofront, but I am not sure whether license
>> permits that.
>
> Did you ask Josef? I think that some sort of agreement is possible
> between you and him.
>
> Wojtek
>

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Received on Wed Jan 12 2011 - 23:20:26 UTC