Re: [BLACKBOX] Seasoned Linux.

From: [at]} <Norayr>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 03:13:20 +0400

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>Is it possible to write and compile kernel-mode programs in Oberon or
> Component Pascal? These could be loaded into the kernel with insmod.
>

Kernel module is actually a binary file which contains code, which
should be run by CPU. Then compiler which generates a native code could
be used to produce Linux kernel modules. The difference is, that
1) kernel modules do not use standard RTL, instead they use kernel RTL.
2) generated code should be possible to link in the different from the
userspace programs way.

There is an example, how FreePascal compiler could be used to generate
Linux kernel module:
http://wiki.freepascal.org/linux/kernel/module_development
You may have noticed, that in my Oberon-07 port RTL is really minimal.
Empty program, which does not include any modules, contains only one
kernel call - call number one (exit). Which allows to finish process.
Empty program, which does not include any other library modules may
contain only one other kernel call - mmap(), because in my
implementation I use mmap() in order to allocate memory with NEW.
This is done for several reasons:
1) it's simpler. I have been written several versions of memory
managers(more fast and more slow, with more or less heap fragmentation),
and they all did not satisfy me. Also, minimal ELF binary size
increased. I am glad it is less than 1kb.
So, I realized that I need to use mmap() to allocate memory anonymously.
It was the simplest way, and may be, that hints to the good design. good
design is often simple. :)
(DISPOSE, i. e. freeing memory is possible to implement on the language
level, but that is not necessary, because a) embedded code should just
allocate some memory at start, and there should be no need in having a
garbage collector, or just freeing it. b) if necessary, DISPOSE can be
implemented in the library module.)

2) As I mentioned, I wanted to keep minimal binary size as small as
possible.

So, in my case, modifications are minimal, "RTL" is minimal.

And, the answer to your question. Yes, it should be possible. I think it
is quite possible to write a C kernel header bindings for Ofront or may
be even oo2c, and link produced .o object files with ld in a different
manner. Some modifications may be required, I guess less modifications
in Ofront than in oo2c.

>2) The other question is user-mode embedded systems like Oberon System
>or BlackBox. These are user-mode apps. They are activated every few
>milliseconds. They are not real-time. These apps can process buffered
>data. They can have a GUI. It would be great if these GUIs could be
>ran on embedded CPUs and display the graphics over X-windows. Is it
>possible to port one of the GUIs to the embedded environment?

My main question is which are limitations of your hardware? I guess if
it runs GNU/Linux and X server, then it is powerful enough to draw GTK
widgets.
Do you mind using GTK? After all, again, we have binary code, linked to
each other. People already did a huge amount of work by writing
libraries in C. Why we should avoid using them, if they tested and work
well? We can write in Oberon, and use GTK. That's very fun. Of course,
if we would have community, we would draw Oberon Gadgets using X calls.
But we cannot now.
I noticed there are languages and compilers, which just produce code,
and have bindings to GNU C library. There are compilers of the languages
like Modula-2 or Pascal which come with own huge set of libraries. For
that there is a need in community, and a platform to work. Like oo2c +
community.
That is why I decided to port Ulm's libraries to oo2c.
(Besides, FreePascal basic libraries do not contain calls to the GNU
system (or let's say GNU C Library). They only interface to kernel API.
This allows them to not have dependencies from the GLIBC versions, fpc
compiled binaries work just on top of Linux kernel, without the GNU system.)

Right now I do not see problems for developing user mode GUI
applications for GNU/Linux by using Ofront or oo2c. If you do not see
problems in using code, generated via C and/or link to the C libraries.

So, if it is necessary to write a kernel RTL and do bindings in order to
produce kernel modules, then, writing GUI application is already possible.
With Ofront, there are two ways: use Ofront as an Oberon V4 system, or
generate GTK (or other GUI toolkit) bindings.

With oo2c - two other ways: to use VisualOberon - native oo2c gui
library set, or to use GTK bindings.
Recently I have generated GTK bindings with H2O in order to use on my
embedded Maemo / Debian (ARM EABI) on Nokia n900 or n810.
Glade3 makes this even more fun, because it generates xml description of
GUI, and then you need to do one call to GTK with the path to that xml
description in order to get that GUI interface drawed.

With Ofront - one need to prepare bindings, and that is hard without a
tool. Stewart Greenhill's H2O is very much useful and impressive, but it
generates code for oo2c only. Currently. Unless someone modifies it to
generate bindings for other compilers, for instance, for Ofront.

However, so far I didn't use that GTK bindings, because I was trying to
compile FreePascal and Lazarus with the whole huge library set on Maemo
embedded device. I succeed, and even compiled right on device simple
three lines application, to test whether touchscreen applications could
be developed by using OnMouseDown OnMouseUp events. :) I've dropped a
couple of links in my previous posts to the mailing list. I can repeat
them if you are interested.
Sincerely,
Norayr

On 01/13/11 01:05, Wojtek Skulski wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2011, Norayr Chilingarian wrote:
>
>>> Oberon 07 compiler Port to Linux/i386
>>> http://barcamp.am/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/barcampevn09/oberon.pdf
>> it's mine :)
>
> My congratulations!
>
> Since you are an expert, let me ask you the following two questions.
>
> I think it is important to distinguish between the kernel-mode drivers
> and user-mode applications. The Unix/Linux design imposes a sharp
> boundary between kernel-mode and user-mode programs. (So does Windows.)
> A kernel-mode driver is a very different software from a user-mode
> application. Therefore we should treat them separately.
>
> 1) Is it possible to write and compile kernel-mode programs in Oberon or
> Component Pascal? These could be loaded into the kernel with insmod.
> Such programs will run at max speed. Interrupt handlers could be
> developed this way. What would it take to prepare a framework for this?
>
> 2) The other question is user-mode embedded systems like Oberon System
> or BlackBox. These are user-mode apps. They are activated every few
> milliseconds. They are not real-time. These apps can process buffered
> data. They can have a GUI. It would be great if these GUIs could be ran
> on embedded CPUs and display the graphics over X-windows. Is it possible
> to port one of the GUIs to the embedded environment?
>
> Wojtek
>
>
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----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1844327810_-_---

Received on Thu Jan 13 2011 - 00:13:20 UTC