[BLACKBOX] Oberon -> Oberon-07

From: [at]} <Chris>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 10:15:42 +1030

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Content-type: text/plain

>-----Original Message-----
>From: BlackBox [mailto:BLACKBOX{([at]})nowhere.xy
>Rex Couture
>Sent: Friday, 14 January 2011 5:05 AM
>To: BLACKBOX{([at]})nowhere.xy
>Subject: Re: [BLACKBOX] Seasoned Linux.
>
>Wojtek Skulski wrote ..
>> On the other hand, if there is ever a chance of having Oberon-07
>> versus not having anything at all, I would rather have Oberon-07.
>
>
>Oberon-07 was optimized for a particular chip or type of
>chips, with limited capabilities for a specific purpose.

That is not true. Do not confuse *the* Oberon-07 *language* with *an*
Oberon-07 *implementation*.

One of the current Oberon-07 *implementations* is optimized for the ARM
architecture but that was done by introducing a couple of
implementation-specific extensions e.g. 'Leaf Procedures' to make optimum
use of the large number of registers on the ARM, additional SYSTEM
pseudo-functions etc. etc.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'Limited capabilities'? If you are referring
to ARM processors you need to be aware that Google's Android runs on ARM,
Nokia's Symbian runs on ARM, Apple uses ARM for their iPads and iPods,
Microsoft have just announced they are implementing a version of Windows 7
on ARM etc. etc.

The Oberon-07 *language* is generic and is a minor refinement of Oberon
designed for even more reliability, security and program verifiability.

>Although it incorporates some good, new ideas, it also creates
>yet another, very different dialect that breaks most existing
>code.

Different yes, but not *very* different. Keep in mind that it is now more
than 20 years since the first existing Oberon code was written - how long do
you want to hang onto that? I am extremely thankful that Wirth has never
been afraid of making necessary breaking changes for the sake of
improvement. My job would be much less enjoyable and productive if I had no
alternative to Pascal with some of the awful bloopers that it inherited from
ALGOL.

It is not a big deal - the breaking issues from Oberon to Oberon-07 are
insignificant. Every day in my work I'm reusing various bits of code by
translating it to / from Delphi, Oberon-2, Component Pascal, Oberon-07, C#
and C. C to Oberon is the hardest. Converting Oberon to Oberon-07 is the
most trivial of any of these.

> As I recall, the FOR loop is out yet again,

Not true. LOOP / EXIT is out. FOR is unchanged.

> as are some
>fairly essential data types.

SHORTINT, LONGINT and INTEGER are now merged into one 32-bit data type
INTEGER. Hooray!

> Breaking existing code strikes
>me as a VERY bad idea, which I think has greatly hindered the
>adoption of Wirth languages.
>

The evolution:

 Pascal -> Oberon -> Component Pascal

is very similar to

 C -> C++ -> C#

Many criticisms of C++ have been based on the fact that it inherits most (if
not all) of C's serious flaws.

They learnt their lessons when they designed C#. The consequence is that is
a *huge* breaking change as it had to fix up two generations of problems in
one go. Are developers moving away from C* as a result? I don't think so.

>I object to the name too, because it implies that it's
>intended to replace previous versions.

AFAIK it is only intended to replace Oberon.

Oberon (or now Oberon-07), Oberon-2, Active Oberon, Component Pascal etc.
etc. are different flavours of the same Oberon *family* all with their
particular strengths and application areas.

e.g. Oberon-2 has additional capabilities suitable when used for Object
Oriented programming. Component Pascal is essentially Oberon-2 with even
more O-O capabilities suitable for implementing component frameworks.

>While I'm sure it's
>excellent for its intended purpose I frankly would not like
>to see it adopted as a new standard for general use.
>

While it might have been possible to get away with using just either Pascal
or C in the 1980's in today's world there are so many more different uses of
computer programming. If you are hoping for a *single* language that is
going to be suitable for general use you are going to be sorely
disappointed. The best you might get is a *family* of similar but not
necessarily 100%-compatible languages.

Just some of the vastly different targets / environments are:

* embedded development
* mobile computing
* desktop computing
* scientific computing
* database computing
* web-based computing
* parallel computing
* supercomputing

A professional programmer has to be familiar with a range of tools so that
he is able to choose the most suitable for the current task. Just as I would
not use a spanner to drive in nails (well, not all the time anyway!) I do
not use one language for every task e.g some of the languages I currently
use:

* Oberon-07, assembler, and C (Don't tell anyone - I have a reputation to
maintain!) for embedded ARM development
* Windows Plugin Oberon-2 and BlackBox Component Pascal for prototyping /
debugging Oberon-07 embedded code
* ASP.NET and C# for GUI web tasks (e.g. entering web orders)
* C# for new rich GUI projects (e.g. LP Burner and Astrobe editor)
* Gardens Point Component Pascal for non-interactive background processing
(e.g. processing web orders)
* Gardens Point Component Pascal for background .NET processing (e.g.
Astrobe Oberon-07 compiler and linker)
* Delphi for Win32 legacy rich GUI projects (e.g. LP Recorder and LP Ripper)
etc. etc.

Regards,
Chris Burrows

CFB Software
Astrobe v3.2: ARM Oberon-07 Development System
http://www.astrobe.com

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Received on Fri Jan 14 2011 - 00:45:42 UTC