Re: [BLACKBOX] Compile plain text files

From: [at]} <Norayr>
Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 14:22:04 +0500

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> Is gcc a compiler of a "cc" language? What is "g"? A CC-compiler should
> be named ccc, logically speaking.
gcc means two things:
0) GNU Compiler Collection
1) GNU C Compiler

In Unix world there was a tradition to name "cc" an executable for a C
compiler. So, in the makefile one may write "cc" and be pretty sure that
cc compiler will be found (if installed) on different flavours of Unix,
like HPUX, Solaris, BSD...

>> The only problem is that gcc doesn't support the best language ever -
>> Oberon / Component Pascal.
>
> gcc by design does not support other languages. I have heard that gcc
> developers swear that if someone adds some sensible language to the gcc,
> they will break it in the next gcc release. We should not underestimate
> the militancy of the gcc afficionados.
>

GNU C Compiler has a very nice architecture and supports multiple
frontends and backends.
So, in principle everyone may add it's frontend to the collection.
This is why there are a lot of frontends.
For example, there is a GM2, GNU Modula-2 compiler, project maintained
and developed by Gaius Mulley, and mailing list of which I also read
every day.
Because the project is actively developed Gaius will be able to add GM2
to the main GCC tree, i. e. not maintain a fork of gcc with Modula-2,
but include Modula-2 in Compiler Collection, as it is, for example, with
Ada.

gcc has another problems, of course. Both technical, and ideological.
Gcc developers chosen the way to complicate and overoptimize the
compiler. But that's what is going on in the modern world - everybody
complicates software.
And they also have ideological problem - how to prevent gcc forks to be
developed and synced with the gcc tree.
This is illustrated in the following gcc mailing list posts:
<---
Interfacing to gcc internals is strongly discouraged unless this is
going to be part of gcc itself. We can't allow outside projects to use
gcc internals. We can't guarantee stability of interfaces, and we also
need to prevent people from trying to violate the GPL.
- ---->
http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2003-07/msg00247.html

and

<---
This is an FSF policy. In order to protect the value of GCC, and in
order to prevent people from using devious methods to circumvent the
GPL, we are not allowed to let outside projects use gcc internals.

Of course, the code is GPL, so you can write your own interfaces if you
want, but we will not be able to accept the patches. GCC changes at
such a rapid pace that it is very expensive to maintain your own
patches, and hence this discourages most people from trying. If someone
is able to do this using existing gcc features, then we may obfuscate
the feature to prevent this use.

This policy does unfortunately complicate gcc development, and there are
a number of people that would like to see it changed, but for now we
must follow it.
- --->
http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2003-07/msg00437.html

Anyway, if I will become (again) a compiler guy I will consider gcc as a
backend option. Another option is llvm, which is very nice, currently
has frontends for Objective-C, Fortran, Ada, Haskell, Java bytecode,
Python, Ruby, ActionScript, GLSL but I have personal problems with BSD
style licenses.

> I never used gdb. Somehow, when I see a bug, I start thinking what could
> have gone wrong.
Must confess that gdb helped me a lot once, when the code seem to work
perfectly on x86, but crashed after recompilation on ARM.
I was unable to find error by reviewing the code, and gdb helped me.
However, I know, that debugger usage is not for an Oberon purist.

Sincerely,
Norayr

On 05/09/11 00:26, Wojtek Skulski wrote:
> On Sun, 8 May 2011, Frank Hrebabetzky wrote:
>
>> You know what? It is Emacs!
>
> Excuse me, what is Emacs? I never heard of it. Could you please explain?
>
>> And not just that: I use gcc.
>
> Is gcc a compiler of a "cc" language? What is "g"? A CC-compiler should
> be named ccc, logically speaking.
>
>> And gdb. Great tools.
>
> I never used gdb. Somehow, when I see a bug, I start thinking what could
> have gone wrong. After a short while I usually find the bug. But I heard
> that some people used gdb. Maybe it is great.
>
> I also heard that Linus does not use gdb, what explains why gdb is so
> hard to apply to the Linux kernel.
>
>> The only problem is that gcc doesn't support the best language ever -
>> Oberon / Component Pascal.
>
> gcc by design does not support other languages. I have heard that gcc
> developers swear that if someone adds some sensible language to the gcc,
> they will break it in the next gcc release. We should not underestimate
> the militancy of the gcc afficionados.
>
> However, there is O2CC out there. I heard it works pretty well.
>
>> And that the developers of this language have a long tradition
>> to tie it neatly to special operating systems
>
> Nothing wrong with proving the language by writing an operating system.
> The C language was proven the same way.
>
>> strange user interfaces,
>
> BlackBox interface is standard Windows. What is strange about it?
>
>> so nobody uses it.
>
> One person is using it. Namely myself. So "nobody" is not strictly true.
>
>> This way I can
>> - Use my editor
>> - use the diff tool of version control systems
>
> I heard that svn can deal with any files. So perhaps it can deal with
> .odc as well? I never used svn, though.
>
>> - switch to cpdev easily.
>
> What is cpdev?
>
> Wojtek
>
>
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Received on Mon May 09 2011 - 11:22:04 UTC