Re: [BLACKBOX] Read-only IN parameters for all data types

From: [at]} <CFB>
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 22:40:56 +1030

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 > -----Original Message-----
> From: BlackBox [mailto:BLACKBOX{([at]})nowhere.xy
> Oleg N. Cher
> Sent: Tuesday, 19 February 2008 7:55 PM
> To: BLACKBOX{([at]})nowhere.xy
> Subject: [BLACKBOX] Read-only IN parameters for all data
> types (Was: Mobile-device development)
>
>
> Using IN parameters for all data types is a "katana",
> (sharp-all-sides blade).

What we would call a 'double-edged sword' - but I don't agree.

> At reasonable not excessive use it well also has pluses:
>
> - A programmer sees with the first sight at heading
> of procedure, what arguments are constantly. (+)
>

Yes. That is what I like about them.

> - Parameters IN can be used for building of more
> optimal machine code, in some cases. (+)
>

Yes. Particularly so for large arrays and records. It means that the
programmer does not have to resort to the 'kludge' of passing such large
read-only parameters as VARs just for reasons of efficiency. This dubious
practice has the associated real risk that the parameters could be
inadvertently modified.

> And minuses:
>
> - However this opportunity is not for improvement
> of recording of algorithms. Language Oberon has the good
> notation providing well intelligibility. And using of
> parameters IN is a first step to INLINE, #IFDEF/#ENDIF
> and #INCLUDE of language C ;-) . Because this IN says
> to compiler HOW to make more the best optimization. But
> not WHAT programmer can say about recording algorithms. (-)
>

Language features that give optimisation hints to the compiler are not a new
concept in Oberon. e.g. INC and DEC, FOR loops (partially so - not to the
same extent as in Pascal though), etc.

>
> - It's unstandartized Oberon-feature. (-)
>

The precedent has already been set - Component Pascal is not standard
Oberon.

> - Here the compiler can understand, that parameter IN
> does not change anywhere (at second pass in moment of
> compiling. More difficultly if compiler is one-passed).
> So the obvious indication of IN from the given point
> of view is excessive. (-)
>

It is no more difficult in a one-pass Component Pascal compiler as all items
have to be declared before being used as a formal parameter.

> I want to say what. When the programmer describes
> the decision a tasks - it is the most important for him
> WHAT is done, instead of HOW. And so IN here is an
> indication to the compiler HOW more effectively to generate
> a code instead of WHAT programmer wanted to say about an
> algorithm of program.
>

That is how Oms have approached the implementation of IN parameters -
primarily for efficiency purposes rather than improved expressiveness.

Admittedly, extending the applicability of IN parameters in isolation
doesn't have an enormous impact - I see it more as removing a niggling
inconsistency for very little implementation cost (as detailed a few weeks
ago).

However, I see the real usefulness of IN parameters as part of a bigger
picture. (Before reading on - note that I am *NOT* not proposing that
Component Pascal should introduce these ideas)

One of the most common errors for new programmers (and not-so-new
programmers!) using Pascal-heritage languages is to pass a parameter by
value when it should have been passed by reference:

e.g.

PROCEDURE Double(i: INTEGER);
BEGIN
  i := i * 2
END Double;

(This example is perhaps too trivial - in the real world the prcoedure would
be much more complex and the mistake more easily overlooked)

I have long believed that the potential for error is increased because
passing parameters by value is the *default* behaviour. The programmer does
not have to make the mistake of *choosing* the wrong keyword - all that is
needed is for him to *forget* to use the keyword VAR.

Introducing IN parameters only partially helps. A more radical step would be
to eliminate value parameters altogether. Just have IN, OUT and VAR (or
INOUT). If you wanted to emulate a value parameter you would pass it as an
IN parameter and assign it to a locally declared variable. (That would be a
good argument to make all IN parameters equivalent to 'read-only VAR'
parameters otherwise you would be copying twice).

As far as I know, this is exactly how parameters are handled in Ada.

If it was too controversial to eliminate value parameters altogether then
the next best thing would be to require a keyword to introduce value
parameters (LOCAL say?) then at least the programmer would have to make a
deliberate choice.

If you are interested in alternative arguments, there was previously a
similar discussion about IN and OUT parameters in the topic "Using variable
parameters for efficiency" started in the usenet newsgroup comp.lang.oberon
on 4 Oct 2004. (Google Groups and you will find it). Actually I argued
against their introduction into Oberon (with the associated removal of value
parameters) in that discussion as it would have meant significant breaking
changes to the majority of existing Oberon programs. The same applies to the
introduction of such modifications to Component Pascal which is why I do not
think that it is a reasonable expectation.

> P.S. Sorry, oh really sorry for bad English, I have not
> enough words for serious discussions.
>

I'm also sorry if I have misinterpreted some of your comments - I did have a
little difficulty fully understanding some of the things you were trying to
say - but nothing too major I hope!

Regards,
Chris Burrows

CFB Software
http://www.cfbsoftware.com/cp
 

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Received on Tue Feb 19 2008 - 13:10:56 UTC