----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-998792834_-_-
Content-type: text/plain
Robert wrote:
>
> Oms's announcement seems to have stunned
> everyone into silence. I guess it takes
> some time to understand the full implications.
>
> An announcement the other way (ie from free to
> asking a professional price) would probably
> have provoked some reaction by now.
Robert:
I wanted to comment right away, but being quick in commenting
in the past, this time I decided not to be the first among the wise.
Anyway, here are my two cents.
IMHO the fact that OMS will stop charging is the less important part
of the announcement. Their shareware and educational policies used
to be so generous that many users were entitled not to pay anyway.
The more important decision is the forthcoming release of the source
code, as I understand the announcement. I can see two followup
scenarios. (a) Nothing will change. BlackBox will remain confined to
a relatively small group of hardcore enthusiasts. (b) BlackBox will
become more widely known and used, for example in engineering
and scientific communities. I think we should hope for (b) rather than
for (a). In order for this to happen, the user community must take
a more active role. The community will get this chance once the sources
are released.
I personally hope to see platform-independent, portable BlackBox.
I can still remember Oberon System V4, where I could start my work
on a Mac, continue under Windows, finish under Linux, and finally
run on AIX. Is this possible with BlackBox? I believe it can be possible
after a fair porting effort. Core V4 libraries must be still available
on the ETHZ server (I hope). If portability was realized with V4,
it must be possible with BlackBox as well, though it is hard to say
how much work would be required.
Can this goal be achieved? I believe it can, but not without work,
planning, and coordination. Such things do not happen just by themselves.
Who is interested in such an effort? Current BB user community seems
to be short on manpower and programming expertise. We are mostly
users rather than system programmers. There are a few professional
programmers and computer scientists around, but not that many. In order
to achieve the goal of BlackBox with V4-like portability we would need
to enlist help of knowledgeable system programmers. Where can we possibly
find such help? I would say that CERN or FermiLab resources are
substantial and their coffers are deep, but professional will not step
in without well defined goals, project management, or funding. All this
is achievable iff BlackBox becomes a mission-critical component at say
CERN. Fyodor was working in this direction for a long time.
Having V4 and BlueBottle in mind we may also count on a miracle
that could happen after BB sources are released. We may dream that
thsi software is so good that developers will run to it and start
porting and supporting BlackBox. Would be nice, but I do not think
it will happen. Let me recall that both V4 and later System-3
have had well-defined support group, namely grad students at ETHZ.
They have collectively put man-decades into Oberon System porting
and maintenance. When they were gone after they got their degress,
the V4 support has vanished. This should teach us that unless
there is a well defined and active group supporting the software,
the software will wilt despite its intrinsic qualities. In other words,
neither porting nor bug fixing will not just happen by itself,
no matter how good the idea is in principle. There needs to be
a support group in place. Enthusiasm will not do the trick
by itself.
I think that the fortcoming source release may or may not lead
to a breakthrough, depending on us.
Thank you,
Wojtek
--------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message containing the word "unsubscribe" to:
blackbox-request{([at]})nowhere.xy
To get a list of valid e-mail commands and instructions on their usage, send a message containing the word "help" to the above address.
Send any problem reports or questions related to this email list to the list owner at
owner-blackbox{([at]})nowhere.xy
Current posting policy:
a) To post you should use the same address by which you are subscribed to the mailing list. That way, the list server will recognize you as subscriber and forward your posting immediately, without creating any overhead.
b) If, for some reason, you cannot post from the address, by which you are subscribed, your message will be moderated to avoid spam. Please understand that moderation will often cause some delay, in particular over weekends or holydays.
----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-998792834_-_-
Content-type: application/rtf
Content-transfer-encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="rtf-body.rtf"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----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-998792834_-_---
Received on Wed Jun 30 2004 - 00:50:19 UTC