Re: [BLACKBOX] April 18 , 2014 deadline for Windows 7 fixes

From: Douglas G. Danforth <"Douglas>
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 17:01:38 -0700

----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1319159302_-_- Content-type: text/plain Rene, I would like to stick my hand up and volunteer for leading the effort BUT I think I would be a bad choice. Why? Well my effort in creating the BlackBox Cookbook died due to my flagging interest. I would be worse for coordinating a large group of individuals. I am a researcher, not a manager. I would certainly be interested in contributing time to some code fixes or adding modules to such an international effort. -Doug Danforth On 7/25/2013 8:02 AM, Rene A. Krywult wrote: Just thinking aloud: It seems that there is a Russian community that is thriving and active in developing the Blackbox framework and development environment. Then there is a German and English community of BB-using programmers. And then there are a few other users here and there. To me, it seems that BB lacks three things: 1) Centralization Currently, those who know about BB have different places to go, if they want to "get it": There's oberon.ch (but OMI stopped their engagement to BB), there's Zinnamturm (where you get lots of subsystems) and oberoncore.ru (where you get the newest BB release and I don't know what else because I do not read Russian). If there was ONE http://blackboxframework.org/ (for instance. it is free currently, and while balckbox.org is auctioned off at around 3000$, there is no auction for it) where you get it all, it would be easier to make BB known, thus growing the community - a core topic for any OpenSource project. 2) Internationalization Would Linux be where it is now, if the documentation and the UI were only available in English? I guess not. It seems that most users and programmers of BB are not native speakers of English. If documentation, UI and website were available in different languages, this would go far in growing the community base. 3) Purpose When Modula-2 hit the Amiga oh so many years ago, its impact was due to the fact that you could write good games in a very short time with it. It was easier to learn than C, and it was better suited to the task than AmigaBasic. And back then these were all the alternatives there were. What is the BB Framework better suited at than VisualStudio/.NET? I think that at least currently game programming with BB is no good (the main loop stops, if you keep a mouse-key pressed, for instance) and it is not Real Time applications - we all know why. While "all purpose" sounds fine, it is neither true nor is it something you can build a marketing strategy around. A vision of purpose could also go far in growing the community AND deciding the direction of future development of BB. A winning argument for BB in its starting days was portability. But then, the Apple BB got the boot, and Linux BB never really got started, so no portability at all nowadays. Werner Braun's O3 is a really great thing but would benefit from a larger dedicated community, too (in fact, I could see a web application server as a purpose for BB, especially if BB was ported to Linux. Ease of use AND being a bit uncommon and thus not so easy to attack is a good argument). Anyhow, these things need the group to agree to do them, someone to take the lead and the group joining up for the effort. Rene Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Juli 2013 um 16:34 Uhr Von: "Rene A. Krywult" -----Original Message----- > From: BlackBox [mailto:BLACKBOX{([at]})nowhere.xy > Support Oberon microsystems AG > Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2013 6:15 PM > To: BLACKBOX{([at]})nowhere.xy > Subject: Re: [BLACKBOX] April 18 , 2014 deadline for Windows 7 fixes > > > We are really sorry about this but we have to encourage users still > relying on BlackBox as their main development platform to start looking > for alternatives. > > At Oberon microsystems we are currently using C# and .NET for many of our > mobile and embedded software projects: > For those who want an easier transition from BB / Component Pascal, I recommend trying Gardens Point Component Pascal. I've been using it daily on Windows 7 for a couple of years with no problems. It is maintained and supported. A link to the GPCP site is here: http://www.cfbsoftware.com/gpcp The great thing I find is that I don't feel like I'm a castaway on a Component Pascal island. You can call the standard .NET Windows functions and code written in C# (and the numerous other .NET languages that are available). Because of the way the Common Language Runtime (CLR) is designed it is very similar to calling a function written in GPCP. You can then dabble with writing C# functions as and when you feel like it. Although C# superficially looks similar to C many of the drawbacks associated with C have been eliminated. That is not surprising as Anders Hejlsberg, who designed the language was also responsible for the design of Turbo Pascal, Borland's Object Pascal and Delphi and their influence on C# is obvious. Regards, Chris Chris Burrows CFB Software http://www.astrobe.com ---- To unsubscribe, send a message with body "SIGNOFF BLACKBOX" to LISTSERV{([at]})nowhere.xy ---- To unsubscribe, send a message with body "SIGNOFF BLACKBOX" to LISTSERV{([at]})nowhere.xy ---- To unsubscribe, send a message with body "SIGNOFF BLACKBOX" to LISTSERV{([at]})nowhere.xy ---- To unsubscribe, send a message with body "SIGNOFF BLACKBOX" to LISTSERV{([at]})nowhere.xy ---- To unsubscribe, send a message with body "SIGNOFF BLACKBOX" to LISTSERV{([at]})nowhere.xy ----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1319159302_-_- Content-type: text/html Rene,

I would like to stick my hand up and volunteer for leading the effort BUT
I think I would be a bad choice.  Why? Well my effort in creating the
BlackBox Cookbook died due to my flagging interest.  I would be worse
for coordinating a large group of individuals.  I am a researcher, not a
manager.

I would certainly be interested in contributing time to some code fixes or
adding modules to such an international effort.

-Doug Danforth

On 7/25/2013 8:02 AM, Rene A. Krywult wrote:
http://blackboxframework.org/ (for instance. it is free currently, and while balckbox.org is auctioned off at around 3000$, there is no auction for it) where you get it all, it would be easier to make BB known, thus growing the community - a core topic for any OpenSource project.

2) Internationalization
Would Linux be where it is now, if the documentation and the UI were only available in English? I guess not. It seems that most users and programmers of BB are not native speakers of English. If documentation, UI and website were available in different languages, this would go far in growing the community base.

3) Purpose
When Modula-2 hit the Amiga oh so many years ago, its impact was due to the fact that you could write good games in a very short time with it. It was easier to learn than C, and it was better suited to the task than AmigaBasic. And back then these were all the alternatives there were. What is the BB Framework better suited at than VisualStudio/.NET? I think that at least currently game programming with BB is no good (the main loop stops, if you keep a mouse-key pressed, for instance) and it is not Real Time applications - we all know why. While "all purpose" sounds fine, it is neither true nor is it something you can build a marketing strategy around. A vision of purpose could also go far in growing the community AND deciding the direction of future development of BB. A winning argument for BB in its starting days was portability. But then, the Apple BB got the boot, and Linux BB never really got started, so no portability at all nowadays. Werner Braun's O3 is a really great thing but would benefit from a larger dedicated community, too (in fact, I could see a web application server as a purpose for BB, especially if BB was ported to Linux. Ease of use AND being a bit uncommon and thus not so easy to attack is a good argument).

Anyhow, these things need the group to agree to do them, someone to take the lead and the group joining up for the effort.

Rene

Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Juli 2013 um 16:34 Uhr
Von: "Rene A. Krywult" Good to hear, Ivan! Is there a list of fixes & changes from the last Oberon Microsystems produced rc to rc 6? (preferably in English...)
Rene

Until this year is possible to make the release including most fixes from the mail-list and the forum OberonCore.ru.
I (or someone from Russian community) will notice it in mail-list when it happen.


Regards, Ivan



2013/7/25 Chris Burrows <chris{([at]})nowhere.xy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlackBox [mailto:BLACKBOX{([at]})nowhere.xy On Behalf Of Blackbox
> Support Oberon microsystems AG
> Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2013 6:15 PM
> To: BLACKBOX{([at]})nowhere.xy > Subject: Re: [BLACKBOX] April 18 , 2014 deadline for Windows 7 fixes
>
>
> We are really sorry about this but we have to encourage users still
> relying on BlackBox as their main development platform to start looking
> for alternatives.
>
> At Oberon microsystems we are currently using C# and .NET for many of our
> mobile and embedded software projects:
>

For those who want an easier transition from BB / Component Pascal, I
recommend trying Gardens Point Component Pascal. I've been using it daily on
Windows 7 for a couple of years with no problems. It is maintained and
supported. A link to the GPCP site is here:

http://www.cfbsoftware.com/gpcp

The great thing I find is that I don't feel like I'm a castaway on a
Component Pascal island. You can call the standard .NET Windows functions
and code written in C# (and the numerous other .NET languages that are
available). Because of the way the Common Language Runtime (CLR) is designed
it is very similar to calling a function written in GPCP.

You can then dabble with writing C# functions as and when you feel like it.
Although C# superficially looks similar to C many of the drawbacks
associated with C have been eliminated. That is not surprising as Anders
Hejlsberg, who designed the language was also responsible for the design of
Turbo Pascal, Borland's Object Pascal and Delphi and their influence on C#
is obvious.

Regards,
Chris

Chris Burrows
CFB Software
http://www.astrobe.com






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