[BLACKBOX] Aw: Re: [BLACKBOX] The official position of the Russian OberonCore team about BlackBox Support

From: Rene A. Krywult <"Rene>
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 17:22:05 +0200

----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1248402490_-_- Content-type: text/plain Dear Wojtek, I'm not OberonCore, but let me answer, nevertheless. I agree to the principle of need driving people to act. I agree that there are different needs in the Community. Now, from my PoV, Omi's adjusted position led to further needs in the community. You, for instance, need "someone" to take care of BB. This need to have someone take care of BB is not unique to you, it is common to the whole community, I guess. Some decide that "someone to take care of BB" is a synonym to "someone, but not me". Fair game. My need is a bit different. If I want to commit to using BB in the future, I need a stable international development on different platforms. If I can't get this, I'll switch to Java. Reluctantly. When I first bought into BB, it was not because of CP (though I already was a Wirth-enthusiast), but because of the multi-platform approach, which sadly was abandoned by Omi. And the largest stumbling block I had in establishing BB professionally and in my private circles is the lack of German documentation and interface. Both could be solved with a dedicated OpenSource project. When Omi made BB OpenSource, this prospect made me stay with BB. Now, the question is, can OberonCore on its own, as a predominantly Russian community "take care" of BB? What will be the effects? Honestly, I do not know of any OpenSource project that did well, if it was not international. You, Wojtek, may or may not be able to read enough Russian to be able to cope with a predominantly Russian BB, but others may not. So, no, this is not an option I believe in. Therefor this need of mine makes me propose the things I proposed. And I already said that there are people who are "community" or, as you put it "I only want to be the user"-people. People who do not care one way or the other who provides the service they need. Some of those users will have a preference about how this OpenSource project continues, others will not. You have voted for "let OberonCore do their thing". This is duly noted. Rene Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. August 2013 um 16:44 Uhr Von: "Wojtek Skulski" We agree what "single center of responsibility for BB would have the right > to create a version in the future that is not fully downward compatible to > 1.6, if that would be necessary." and so on, if it is defined as mentioned > above: "Such centre may be assigned as the successor of BlackBox Support > Oberon microsystems AG by acknowledgment. Or shall be elected by > Community." > > But again, there is no point to discuss these technical details while the > center is hypothetical. > > Best regards, > OberonCore team.  19.08.2013, 00:25, "Rene A. Krywult" :Dear OberonCore > team, ---- To unsubscribe, send a message with body "SIGNOFF BLACKBOX" to LISTSERV{([at]})nowhere.xy ---- To unsubscribe, send a message with body "SIGNOFF BLACKBOX" to LISTSERV{([at]})nowhere.xy ----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1248402490_-_- Content-type: text/html Dear Wojtek,

I'm not OberonCore, but let me answer, nevertheless.

I agree to the principle of need driving people to act. I agree that there are different needs in the Community.

Now, from my PoV, Omi's adjusted position led to further needs in the community.

You, for instance, need "someone" to take care of BB. This need to have someone take care of BB is not unique to you, it is common to the whole community, I guess.

Some decide that "someone to take care of BB" is a synonym to "someone, but not me". Fair game.

My need is a bit different. If I want to commit to using BB in the future, I need a stable international development on different platforms. If I can't get this, I'll switch to Java. Reluctantly. When I first bought into BB, it was not because of CP (though I already was a Wirth-enthusiast), but because of the multi-platform approach, which sadly was abandoned by Omi. And the largest stumbling block I had in establishing BB professionally and in my private circles is the lack of German documentation and interface. Both could be solved with a dedicated OpenSource project. When Omi made BB OpenSource, this prospect made me stay with BB.

Now, the question is, can OberonCore on its own, as a predominantly Russian community "take care" of BB? What will be the effects? Honestly, I do not know of any OpenSource project that did well, if it was not international. You, Wojtek, may or may not be able to read enough Russian to be able to cope with a predominantly Russian BB, but others may not. So, no, this is not an option I believe in.

Therefor this need of mine makes me propose the things I proposed. And I already said that there are people who are "community" or, as you put it "I only want to be the user"-people. People who do not care one way or the other who provides the service they need.

Some of those users will have a preference about how this OpenSource project continues, others will not. You have voted for "let OberonCore do their thing". This is duly noted.

Rene

Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. August 2013 um 16:44 Uhr
Von: "Wojtek Skulski" <skulski{([at]})nowhere.xy An: BLACKBOX{([at]})nowhere.xy Betreff: Re: [BLACKBOX] The official position of the Russian OberonCore team about BlackBox Support

Dear Oberon Core:

I think that discussions about the "centre" are moot. People do what they
do because they need to. Take OMS as an example. They created BB because
they needed a tool for their commercial developments. They hoped that the
tool itself would become a successful product. When this vision flopped,
they adjusted their position by releasing the source (to their credit!).
Recently they adjusted their position again, what sparked this discussion.
In each case OMS were driven by their own needs, which I think is the
right attitude.

Thus, I am asking why you are doing what you are doing. I would like to
know. Once I know, I can only do one think: accept. Just like I accepted
the OMS decisions at various stages of BB development.

Lets's be realistic. My desire is to piggyback on someone's hard work.
This someone is you. It will be counterproductive to try becoming a
backseat driver. You are the drivers of your own work, and I want to
benefit from it just like I benefited from the OMS work.

I am submitting the above to the community to consider whether it is not
the right attitude.

Thank you,
Wojtek "I only want to be the user"



> We agree what "single center of responsibility for BB would have the right
> to create a version in the future that is not fully downward compatible to
> 1.6, if that would be necessary." and so on, if it is defined as mentioned
> above: "Such centre may be assigned as the successor of BlackBox Support
> Oberon microsystems AG by acknowledgment. Or shall be elected by
> Community."
>
> But again, there is no point to discuss these technical details while the
> center is hypothetical.
>
> Best regards,
> OberonCore team. Â 19.08.2013, 00:25, "Rene A. Krywult" :Dear OberonCore
> team,


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---- To unsubscribe, send a message with body "SIGNOFF BLACKBOX" to LISTSERV{([at]})nowhere.xy ----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1248402490_-_--- Received on Wed Aug 21 2013 - 17:22:05 UTC