Re: [BLACKBOX] Seasoned Linux.

From: Douglas G. Danforth <"Douglas>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 16:27:26 -0800

----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1522719106_-_- Content-type: text/plain On 1/12/2011 4:07 PM, Wojtek Skulski wrote: On Thu, 13 Jan 2011, Norayr Chilingarian wrote: c) in case of BlackBox - write several native backends for different CPU's I just want to warn you that embedded CPUs are maybe a little different from i386 because there are bugs in their silicon. For example, the Blackfin BF533 is only supported by Analog Devices' ucLinux team from silicon revision 0.3 and up. Two earlier silicon revisions were too buggy for the ucLinux compiler team. Those guys are embedded in the company's environment and thus they know their silicon. It may be very labor-intensive to repeat their work based on the data sheets and published silicon errata. From that point of view it may be a safer approach to use the Oberon-to-C translation and then let the gcc do the rest. I know it sounds dirty. But it may prove unrealistic to develop and maintain native backends. I somehow feel it would be more realistic to define an Oberon-friendly compatibility layer which would only depend on the Linux kernel independent from the CPU. Then address all the work to that compatibility layer using gcc. In such a way all the silicon dependencies will be handled by the native teams at Analog Devices, Texas Instruments, Freescale, etc. It is simply not possible to duplicate their work. They have insider knowledge which outsiders are very unlikely to gain. If the back end can be specified by an LL1 grammar then Coco can be used to generate it. ---- To unsubscribe, send a message with body "SIGNOFF BLACKBOX" to LISTSERV{([at]})nowhere.xy ----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1522719106_-_- Content-type: application/rtf Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="rtf-body.rtf" e1xydGYxXGFuc2lcYW5zaWNwZzEyNTJcZnJvbWh0bWwxIFxkZWZmMHtcZm9udHRibA0Ke1xmMFxm c3dpc3MgQXJpYWw7fQ0Ke1xmMVxmbW9kZXJuIENvdXJpZXIgTmV3O30NCntcZjJcZm5pbFxmY2hh cnNldDIgU3ltYm9sO30NCntcZjNcZm1vZGVyblxmY2hhcnNldDAgQ291cmllciBOZXc7fX0NCntc Y29sb3J0YmxccmVkMFxncmVlbjBcYmx1ZTA7XHJlZDBcZ3JlZW4wXGJsdWUyNTU7fQ0KXHVjMVxw YXJkXHBsYWluXGRlZnRhYjM2MCBcZjBcZnMyNCANCntcKlxodG1sdGFnMjQzIDwhRE9DVFlQRSBI VE1MIFBVQkxJQyAiLS8vVzNDLy9EVEQgSFRNTCA0LjAxIFRyYW5zaXRpb25hbC8vRU4iPn0NCntc KlxodG1sdGFnMyBccGFyIH0NCntcKlxodG1sdGFnMTkgPGh0bWw+fQ0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWcyIFxw YXIgfQ0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWcyNDIgICB9DQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzM0IDxoZWFkPn0NCntcKlxodG1s dGFnMSBccGFyIH0NCntcKlxodG1sdGFnMjQxICAgICB9DQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzEgXHBhciB9DQp7 XCpcaHRtbHRhZzI0MSAgIH0NCntcKlxodG1sdGFnNDEgPC9oZWFkPn0NCntcKlxodG1sdGFnMiBc cGFyIH0NCntcKlxodG1sdGFnMjQyICAgfQ0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc1MCA8Ym9keSB0ZXh0PSIjMDAw MDAwIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjZmZmZmZmIj59XGh0bWxydGYgXHZpZXdraW5kNQ0Ke1wqXGJhY2tncm91 bmQge1xzaHB7XCpcc2hwaW5zdHtcc3B7XHNuIGZpbGxDb2xvcn17XHN2IDE2Nzc3MjE1fX17XHNw e1xzbiBmRmlsbGVkfXtcc3YgMX19fX19XGh0bWxydGYwIA0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWcwIFxwYXIgfQ0K e1wqXGh0bWx0YWcyNDAgICAgIH0NCntcKlxodG1sdGFnMTEyIDxicj59XGh0bWxydGYgXHBhcg0K XGh0bWxydGYwIA0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWcwIFxwYXIgfQ0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWcyNDAgICAgIH0NCntc KlxodG1sdGFnMTEyIDxicj59XGh0bWxydGYgXHBhcg0KXGh0bWxydGYwIA0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWcw IFxwYXIgfQ0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWcyNDAgICAgIH17XCpcaHRtbHRhZzY0fVxodG1scnRmIHtcaHRt bHJ0ZjAgT24gMS8xMi8yMDExIDQ6MDcgUE0sIFdvanRlayBTa3Vsc2tpIHdyb3RlOg0Ke1wqXGh0 bWx0YWc0IFxwYXIgfVxodG1scnRmICBcaHRtbHJ0ZjAgDQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzg0ICAgICB9e1wq XGh0bWx0YWc3Mn1caHRtbHJ0ZlxwYXJ9XGh0bWxydGYwDQoNCntcKlxodG1sdGFnOTYgPGJsb2Nr cXVvdGVccGFyIGNpdGU9Im1pZDphbHBpbmUuREVCLjIuMDAuMTEwMTEyMTg0ODI3MC4zMjM0MkBu b3dzaGVsbC5wYXMucm9jaGVzdGVyLmVkdSJccGFyICAgICAgIHR5cGU9ImNpdGUiPn1caHRtbHJ0 ZiBccGFyDQp7XGh0bWxydGYwIHtcKlxodG1sdGFnNjR9XGh0bWxydGYge1xodG1scnRmMCBcbGkz NjAgT24gVGh1LCAxMyBKYW4gMjAxMSwgTm9yYXlyIENoaWxpbmdhcmlhbiB3cm90ZToNCntcKlxo dG1sdGFnNCBccGFyIH1caHRtbHJ0ZiAgXGh0bWxydGYwIA0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc4NCAgICAgICB9 DQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzExNiA8YnI+fVxodG1scnRmIFxsaW5lDQpcaHRtbHJ0ZjAgDQp7XCpcaHRt bHRhZzQgXHBhciB9DQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzg0ICAgICAgIH0NCntcKlxodG1sdGFnMTE2IDxicj59 XGh0bWxydGYgXGxpbmUNClxodG1scnRmMCANCntcKlxodG1sdGFnNCBccGFyIH0NCntcKlxodG1s dGFnODQgICAgICAgfXtcKlxodG1sdGFnNzJ9XGh0bWxydGZccGFyfVxodG1scnRmMA0KDQp7XCpc aHRtbHRhZzk2IDxibG9ja3F1b3RlIHR5cGU9ImNpdGUiPn1caHRtbHJ0ZiBccGFyDQp7XGh0bWxy dGYwIHtcKlxodG1sdGFnNjR9XGh0bWxydGYge1xodG1scnRmMCBcbGk3MjAgYykgaW4gY2FzZSBv ZiBCbGFja0JveCAtIHdyaXRlIHNldmVyYWwNCntcKlxodG1sdGFnNCBccGFyIH1caHRtbHJ0ZiAg XGh0bWxydGYwIA0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc4NCAgICAgICAgIH1uYXRpdmUgYmFja2VuZHMgZm9yIGRp ZmZlcmVudCBDUFUncw0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc0IFxwYXIgfVxodG1scnRmICBcaHRtbHJ0ZjAgDQp7 XCpcaHRtbHRhZzg0ICAgICAgICAgfQ0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWcxMTYgPGJyPn1caHRtbHJ0ZiBcbGlu ZQ0KXGh0bWxydGYwIA0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc0IFxwYXIgfQ0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc4NCAgICAgICB9 e1wqXGh0bWx0YWc3Mn1caHRtbHJ0ZlxwYXJ9XGh0bWxydGYwDQoNCntcKlxodG1sdGFnMTA0IDwv YmxvY2txdW90ZT59XGh0bWxydGYgfVxwYXINClxodG1scnRmMCANCntcKlxodG1sdGFnMCBccGFy IH0NCntcKlxodG1sdGFnMjQwICAgICAgIH0NCntcKlxodG1sdGFnMTEyIDxicj59XGh0bWxydGYg XHBhcg0KXGh0bWxydGYwIA0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWcwIFxwYXIgfQ0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWcyNDAgICAg ICAgfXtcKlxodG1sdGFnNjR9XGh0bWxydGYge1xodG1scnRmMCBcbGkzNjAgSSBqdXN0IHdhbnQg dG8gd2FybiB5b3UgdGhhdCBlbWJlZGRlZCBDUFVzIGFyZSBtYXliZSBhIGxpdHRsZQ0Ke1wqXGh0 bWx0YWc0IFxwYXIgfVxodG1scnRmICBcaHRtbHJ0ZjAgDQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzg0ICAgICAgIH1k aWZmZXJlbnQgZnJvbSBpMzg2IGJlY2F1c2UgdGhlcmUgYXJlIGJ1Z3MgaW4gdGhlaXIgc2lsaWNv bi4gRm9yDQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzQgXHBhciB9XGh0bWxydGYgIFxodG1scnRmMCANCntcKlxodG1s dGFnODQgICAgICAgfWV4YW1wbGUsIHRoZSBCbGFja2ZpbiBCRjUzMyBpcyBvbmx5IHN1cHBvcnRl ZCBieSBBbmFsb2cgRGV2aWNlcycNCntcKlxodG1sdGFnNCBccGFyIH1caHRtbHJ0ZiAgXGh0bWxy dGYwIA0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc4NCAgICAgICB9dWNMaW51eCB0ZWFtIGZyb20gc2lsaWNvbiByZXZp c2lvbiAwLjMgYW5kIHVwLiBUd28gZWFybGllciBzaWxpY29uDQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzQgXHBhciB9 XGh0bWxydGYgIFxodG1scnRmMCANCntcKlxodG1sdGFnODQgICAgICAgfXJldmlzaW9ucyB3ZXJl IHRvbyBidWdneSBmb3IgdGhlIHVjTGludXggY29tcGlsZXIgdGVhbS4NCntcKlxodG1sdGFnNCBc cGFyIH1caHRtbHJ0ZiAgXGh0bWxydGYwIA0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc4NCAgICAgICB9DQp7XCpcaHRt bHRhZzExNiA8YnI+fVxodG1scnRmIFxsaW5lDQpcaHRtbHJ0ZjAgDQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzQgXHBh ciB9DQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzg0ICAgICAgIH0NCntcKlxodG1sdGFnMTE2IDxicj59XGh0bWxydGYg XGxpbmUNClxodG1scnRmMCANCntcKlxodG1sdGFnNCBccGFyIH0NCntcKlxodG1sdGFnODQgICAg ICAgfVRob3NlIGd1eXMgYXJlIGVtYmVkZGVkIGluIHRoZSBjb21wYW55J3MgZW52aXJvbm1lbnQg YW5kIHRodXMgdGhleQ0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc0IFxwYXIgfVxodG1scnRmICBcaHRtbHJ0ZjAgDQp7 XCpcaHRtbHRhZzg0ICAgICAgIH1rbm93IHRoZWlyIHNpbGljb24uIEl0IG1heSBiZSB2ZXJ5IGxh Ym9yLWludGVuc2l2ZSB0byByZXBlYXQgdGhlaXINCntcKlxodG1sdGFnNCBccGFyIH1caHRtbHJ0 ZiAgXGh0bWxydGYwIA0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc4NCAgICAgICB9d29yayBiYXNlZCBvbiB0aGUgZGF0 YSBzaGVldHMgYW5kIHB1Ymxpc2hlZCBzaWxpY29uIGVycmF0YS4gRnJvbQ0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc0 IFxwYXIgfVxodG1scnRmICBcaHRtbHJ0ZjAgDQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzg0ICAgICAgIH10aGF0IHBv aW50IG9mIHZpZXcgaXQgbWF5IGJlIGEgc2FmZXIgYXBwcm9hY2ggdG8gdXNlIHRoZQ0Ke1wqXGh0 bWx0YWc0IFxwYXIgfVxodG1scnRmICBcaHRtbHJ0ZjAgDQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzg0ICAgICAgIH1P YmVyb24tdG8tQyB0cmFuc2xhdGlvbiBhbmQgdGhlbiBsZXQgdGhlIGdjYyBkbyB0aGUgcmVzdC4N CntcKlxodG1sdGFnNCBccGFyIH1caHRtbHJ0ZiAgXGh0bWxydGYwIA0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc4NCAg ICAgICB9DQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzExNiA8YnI+fVxodG1scnRmIFxsaW5lDQpcaHRtbHJ0ZjAgDQp7 XCpcaHRtbHRhZzQgXHBhciB9DQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzg0ICAgICAgIH0NCntcKlxodG1sdGFnMTE2 IDxicj59XGh0bWxydGYgXGxpbmUNClxodG1scnRmMCANCntcKlxodG1sdGFnNCBccGFyIH0NCntc KlxodG1sdGFnODQgICAgICAgfUkga25vdyBpdCBzb3VuZHMgZGlydHkuIEJ1dCBpdCBtYXkgcHJv dmUgdW5yZWFsaXN0aWMgdG8gZGV2ZWxvcA0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc0IFxwYXIgfVxodG1scnRmICBc aHRtbHJ0ZjAgDQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzg0ICAgICAgIH1hbmQgbWFpbnRhaW4gbmF0aXZlIGJhY2tl bmRzLg0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc0IFxwYXIgfVxodG1scnRmICBcaHRtbHJ0ZjAgDQp7XCpcaHRtbHRh Zzg0ICAgICAgIH0NCntcKlxodG1sdGFnMTE2IDxicj59XGh0bWxydGYgXGxpbmUNClxodG1scnRm MCANCntcKlxodG1sdGFnNCBccGFyIH0NCntcKlxodG1sdGFnODQgICAgICAgfQ0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0 YWcxMTYgPGJyPn1caHRtbHJ0ZiBcbGluZQ0KXGh0bWxydGYwIA0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc0IFxwYXIg fQ0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc4NCAgICAgICB9SSBzb21laG93IGZlZWwgaXQgd291bGQgYmUgbW9yZSBy ZWFsaXN0aWMgdG8gZGVmaW5lIGFuDQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzQgXHBhciB9XGh0bWxydGYgIFxodG1s cnRmMCANCntcKlxodG1sdGFnODQgICAgICAgfU9iZXJvbi1mcmllbmRseSBjb21wYXRpYmlsaXR5 IGxheWVyIHdoaWNoIHdvdWxkIG9ubHkgZGVwZW5kIG9uIHRoZQ0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc0IFxwYXIg fVxodG1scnRmICBcaHRtbHJ0ZjAgDQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzg0ICAgICAgIH1MaW51eCBrZXJuZWwg aW5kZXBlbmRlbnQgZnJvbSB0aGUgQ1BVLiBUaGVuIGFkZHJlc3MgYWxsIHRoZSB3b3JrDQp7XCpc aHRtbHRhZzQgXHBhciB9XGh0bWxydGYgIFxodG1scnRmMCANCntcKlxodG1sdGFnODQgICAgICAg fXRvIHRoYXQgY29tcGF0aWJpbGl0eSBsYXllciB1c2luZyBnY2MuIEluIHN1Y2ggYSB3YXkgYWxs IHRoZQ0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc0IFxwYXIgfVxodG1scnRmICBcaHRtbHJ0ZjAgDQp7XCpcaHRtbHRh Zzg0ICAgICAgIH1zaWxpY29uIGRlcGVuZGVuY2llcyB3aWxsIGJlIGhhbmRsZWQgYnkgdGhlIG5h dGl2ZSB0ZWFtcyBhdCBBbmFsb2cNCntcKlxodG1sdGFnNCBccGFyIH1caHRtbHJ0ZiAgXGh0bWxy dGYwIA0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc4NCAgICAgICB9RGV2aWNlcywgVGV4YXMgSW5zdHJ1bWVudHMsIEZy ZWVzY2FsZSwgZXRjLiBJdCBpcyBzaW1wbHkgbm90DQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzQgXHBhciB9XGh0bWxy dGYgIFxodG1scnRmMCANCntcKlxodG1sdGFnODQgICAgICAgfXBvc3NpYmxlIHRvIGR1cGxpY2F0 ZSB0aGVpciB3b3JrLiBUaGV5IGhhdmUgaW5zaWRlciBrbm93bGVkZ2UNCntcKlxodG1sdGFnNCBc cGFyIH1caHRtbHJ0ZiAgXGh0bWxydGYwIA0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc4NCAgICAgICB9d2hpY2ggb3V0 c2lkZXJzIGFyZSB2ZXJ5IHVubGlrZWx5IHRvIGdhaW4uDQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzQgXHBhciB9XGh0 bWxydGYgIFxodG1scnRmMCANCntcKlxodG1sdGFnODQgICAgICAgfQ0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWcxMTYg PGJyPn1caHRtbHJ0ZiBcbGluZQ0KXGh0bWxydGYwIA0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0YWc0IFxwYXIgfQ0Ke1wq XGh0bWx0YWc4NCAgICAgICB9DQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzExNiA8YnI+fVxodG1scnRmIFxsaW5lDQpc aHRtbHJ0ZjAgDQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzQgXHBhciB9DQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzg0ICAgICB9e1wqXGh0 bWx0YWc3Mn1caHRtbHJ0ZlxwYXJ9XGh0bWxydGYwDQoNCntcKlxodG1sdGFnMTA0IDwvYmxvY2tx dW90ZT59XGh0bWxydGYgfVxwYXINClxodG1scnRmMCANCntcKlxodG1sdGFnMCBccGFyIH0NCntc KlxodG1sdGFnMjQwICAgICB9e1wqXGh0bWx0YWc2NH1caHRtbHJ0ZiB7XGh0bWxydGYwIElmIHRo ZSBiYWNrIGVuZCBjYW4gYmUgc3BlY2lmaWVkIGJ5IGFuIExMMSBncmFtbWFyIHRoZW4gQ29jbyBj YW4gYmUNCntcKlxodG1sdGFnNCBccGFyIH1caHRtbHJ0ZiAgXGh0bWxydGYwIA0Ke1wqXGh0bWx0 YWc4NCAgICAgfXVzZWQgdG8gZ2VuZXJhdGUgaXQuDQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzExNiA8YnI+fVxodG1s cnRmIFxsaW5lDQpcaHRtbHJ0ZjAgDQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzQgXHBhciB9DQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzg0 ICAgICB9DQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzExNiA8YnI+fVxodG1scnRmIFxsaW5lDQpcaHRtbHJ0ZjAgDQp7 XCpcaHRtbHRhZzQgXHBhciB9DQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzg0ICAgfXtcKlxodG1sdGFnNzJ9XGh0bWxy dGZccGFyfVxodG1scnRmMA0KDQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzU4IDwvYm9keT59DQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzIg XHBhciB9DQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzI3IDwvaHRtbD59DQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzMgXHBhciB9DQp7XCpc aHRtbHRhZzY0IDxwPn1caHRtbHJ0ZiBccGFyDQpcaHRtbHJ0ZjAgXGh0bWxydGYge1xodG1scnRm MCANCntcKlxodG1sdGFnNCBccGFyIH0tLS0tDQp7XCpcaHRtbHRhZzQgXHBhciB9XGh0bWxydGYg IFxodG1scnRmMCBUbyB1bnN1YnNjcmliZSwgc2VuZCBhIG1lc3NhZ2Ugd2l0aCBib2R5ICJTSUdO T0ZGIEJMQUNLQk9YIiB0byBMSVNUU0VSVkBMSVNUUy5PQkVST04uQ0gNCntcKlxodG1sdGFnNCBc cGFyIH1caHRtbHJ0ZiAgXGh0bWxydGYwIFxodG1scnRmfX0AVHlwZTogdGV4dC9wbGE= ----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1522719106_-_--- Received on Thu Jan 13 2011 - 01:27:26 UTC