Re: [BLACKBOX] Re [BLACKBOX] Seasons Greetings from Linuxland

From: [at]} <Norayr>
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 23:08:16 +0400

----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1960031553_-_-
Content-type: text/plain

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Okay, people there's a misunderstanding.
Possible reasons are: whether I didn't understand the message well
enough, or it wasn't explicit enough.
Anyway, I was saying, that despite the fact one can successfully develop
in C like languages, and do not "shoot himself" doesn't mean that safety
is not needed at anymore.

> Is this statement in support of Wirthian languages or just the opposite?
Actually yes, because I caught the thesis (which wasn't may be
expressed, as I see now) that "if there's no 100% warranty that safety
could be achieved by using safe technology, then safe technology is
useless".
Which is so obviously wrong, that I have been written my previous message.

that you wrote your statement
> yourself, you declared it wrong, and you are now disputing the other
> persons views based on the statement you created yourself.
Seems that like, indeed. :(

> INTEGRITY exists despite not being free software.
Surely.
Situation, well, reminded me non rational arguments of the free software
opponents, who say, that if there's a possibility of having malicious
features in the free software, then it is equally dangerous to use it,
as proprietary software.
Which doesn't make sense, because the probability of having a backdoor
in the free software is not equal to the probability of having a
backdoor in the proprietary software. That does not contradict to the
statement that proprietary software, let's say, INTEGRITY can be free
from malicious features. (but does not prove, because that couldn't be
proven without careful research of the source code)
Anyway, this talk is not about free vs prop software, I just brought an
example of the similar situation.
The problem is, as I said, I've made a mistake, and I sincerely
apologize for the wrong "transfer" of the situation.
I've participated this list for several years, signed with my name, not
been very active here, but still earned nice relationships with some of
the members.
I am very sorry for misunderstanding which happened.
I believe that I didn't offend senses of participants, and we can
continue to coexist in peace.

Norayr

On 12/27/10 19:53, Wojtek Skulski wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 27 Dec 2010, Norayr Chilingarian wrote:
>
>> Life vests, condoms, and parachutes also not 100 percent safe.
>> However, jump without a parachute is not the
>> same as equipped.
>
> Is this statement in support of Wirthian languages or just the opposite?
>
>> Your argument is the same, as argument against free software like: "if
>> we do not have 100 percent warranty that
>> free software doesn't contain backdoors, then it is better to use
>> proprietary software in terms of backdoors."
>
> I am not sure that his argument was the same as your statement.
> With all due respect it seems to me that you wrote your statement
> yourself, you declared it wrong, and you are now disputing the other
> persons views based on the statement you created yourself.
>
>> Which is wrong, obviously.
>
> Not sure if it is wrong, and even less so "obviously". If it was
> obviously wrong, then operating systems like INTEGRITY would not exist.
> Yet it does exist despite not being free software. Check out the Green
> Hills website:
> http://www.ghs.com/products/rtos/integrity.html
>
> Sincerely,
> Wojtek
>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNGOQgAAoJEDbv/aplkZ1Fh1QH/j/Gv3fVEbUJBWavzbRL28Ex
PMgJjnXnAYrWBqP50BsXwzjqRBSQVgXWKg7JyYWcbaXrV/087PpkGVrulWav1mxn
GSHwdSHvGyBFJQM4N06TAbAKKE3Kv23hRV+YgpMeWk4MZrjSlwAKAiJGUu7ivV3w
YQlQ4maOiHU5UAOUeXLUHMNkpoZGhHXvaw5/PS98FYjtLxavp6poXuCUEKoKtJp3
Gk7NopQIudUglUthQmmMDIiWwnHHO7M+QGoi0YINADtODOusJowo+zp4zzWH3yJg
kCM4ej5mBdF25yX1Igon+iOCWoQqcumNCAHx/hLEGSv9S0qdv9lsZGBveg1jACk=
=9u8B
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

----
To unsubscribe, send a message with body "SIGNOFF BLACKBOX" to LISTSERV{([at]})nowhere.xy----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1960031553_-_-
Content-type: application/rtf
Content-transfer-encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="rtf-body.rtf"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----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1960031553_-_---

Received on Mon Dec 27 2010 - 20:08:16 UTC