Re: [BLACKBOX] Seasons Greetings from Linuxland

From: [at]} <Norayr>
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 11:30:27 +0400

----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1111611292_-_-
Content-type: text/plain

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Regarding dangerous examples:

VAR i : INTEGER;
N : LONGINT;
...
FOR i := 0 to N DO
   ...
END;

Not all compilers check that.
And there's a trap, both metaphorical, and system.

Regarding the surprising fact that Pascal programmers performed not well:

 Let's not forget that today's pascal went far away from
Wirthian pascal. It is complicated, for instance, there's a lot of
different types of strings, whereas some of them managed by the internal
memory manager, and there's even reference counter, while some strings -
not.
There's generics, there's delegates, there's java like objects (TList),
so it's a mix of different concepts, tied together.
And only strings (as dynamic arrays) are enough to be not satisfied with
the clean design absence. Why strings differ from
other dynamic arrays? Why array of char is "better" than array of
integer? I mean, today's pascal is not comparable with Oberon and even
Modula-2.
On the other hand it still has modularity on the source code level, i.
e. though there's no technology that supports dynamic loading of dcu
files, but still, units are like modules, with the
interface/implementation sections and without unnecessary namespaces.
Of course modern Pascal has other advantages other C++, but it's still
definitely not as safe as Oberon.

Norayr

On 12/28/10 07:33, Wojtek Skulski wrote:
> Troy:
>
> thank you sharing the tip. Off the top of my head I would use
> meaningful labels.
>
> Note that the resource compiler is not a part of the language. It is an
> add-on tool. I personally use it a lot and I always find it very
> helpful, but it has its limits.
>
> If Oberon/CP was used to develop Linux, we would have seen gazzilions of
> such add ons. I am also afraid we would have seen operator overloading
> and what-not GNU extensions to the language.
>
> Cheers,
>
> W.
>
>
> On Mon, 27 Dec 2010, Stephen R. Troy wrote:
>
>> I have a program which uses an array, and I defined meaningful labels
>> as constants to help me remember the
>> meaning of each array element. And I placed text fields in a window
>> so I could monitor the contents of the
>> array, and exported the constant labels as well as the array. BUT
>> when I set the link for each text field as
>> "array[labelA]", "array[labelB]", etc., nothing showed up in the text
>> fields. Finally I changed the links to
>> "array[0]", "array[1]", etc. and that worked. The resource compiler
>> part of BlackBox may be a bit rudimentary.
>> Steve Troy
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: [BLACKBOX] Re [BLACKBOX] Seasons Greetings from
>> Linuxland
>> From: Wojtek Skulski <skulski{([at]})nowhere.xy
>> Date: Mon, December 27, 2010 7:41 pm
>> To: BLACKBOX{([at]})nowhere.xy
>>
>> > The following hypothetical examples are intended to show what
>> a programmer
>> > could concoct if he has muddled thinking regarding boolean
>> logic [snip]
>>
>> My own conclusion is that one can write C in any language. One
>> also can
>> write reasonable code in C. Some languages encourage good
>> attitude while
>> others just the opposite, but at the end of the day it is the
>> attitude,
>> which differentiates the masters from their opposites.
>>
>> Playing devil's advocate, I remember my utter surprise when I read
>> statements in Project Oberon like "IF mouse = 1 THEN...". The
>> mouse keys
>> were numbered 1,2,3 (or 0,1,2, don't remember) and these numbers
>> were used
>> literally in the code published in the book (!!). A bit
>> shameful, was it
>> not? In later versions the literal constants we replaced with
>> ML, MM, and
>> MR, as they should have been from the beginning.
>>
>> Even our gurus have had their bad days.
>>
>> W.
>
>
> ----
> To unsubscribe, send a message with body "SIGNOFF BLACKBOX" to
> LISTSERV{([at]})nowhere.xy

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNGZITAAoJEDbv/aplkZ1Fb3sH/RKAitjDoovb97UUSvB//unA
pJxnynvn424wcEwb7crvzPaIDR9TBBLIWdkM/XEezodhCriybtI+/B5k4bYoo6fh
KE/iEAkH9G0OjD7zhYl1mSLsTmHKJpH/sjKW4Sii4oDqtRVYCIdiRslC7YtB+PBd
f//BKOUw1wJ/LHxr+yYhZijsZw5byGTJDe9Isk0ykXJywCVoJ/mv44pYsWPavVa0
y6YLix7+XuWb3wLzY8fQuRnARNB36HVuaxAUmgyCM4j0KMkK9roqEvFrgwCiWI5F
G+cVKPKzFWheHgVgDdXLlmeZqkezc2tHebTghburUWcQhh0Tk3F/9j8iwoQcfJk=
=Wn18
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

----
To unsubscribe, send a message with body "SIGNOFF BLACKBOX" to LISTSERV{([at]})nowhere.xy----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1111611292_-_-
Content-type: application/rtf
Content-transfer-encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="rtf-body.rtf"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----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1111611292_-_---

Received on Tue Dec 28 2010 - 08:30:27 UTC