standard libraries - was: - STDOUT - Niklaus, Niklaus, NIKLAUS!

From: null <">
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 10:10:48 +0000

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Hi Chris,

in principle I agree to your remarks

> Yes - and for very good reason. Removing IO from the language
> makes the compilers more portable / less OS-dependent.
> By moving IO statements out of the compiler and into the
> libraries, porting the language to new platforms means that
> the work of implementing IO facilities could be done by
> developers without compiler writing skills.

but I would like to add that I sincerely regret the
absence of standard libraries. But this was already
the case for Modula-2 and it was agggrevated with
Oberon. Althoug the disappearance of easy routines
for reading like ReadLn in favor of Scanners is a big
leap forward it prevents people from switching.

It requires refactoring of the own thoughts ...
something many people have problems with.

regards

--
	Bernhard Treutwein, IuK, Ref. III A 3
	Bernhard.Treutwein(at)verwaltung uni-muenchen de
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blackbox{([at]})nowhere.xy> Behalf Of CFB Software
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 2:46 AM
> To: BlackBox Mailing List
> Subject: [BlackBox] - STDOUT - Niklaus, Niklaus, NIKLAUS!
> 
> 
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: blackbox{([at]})nowhere.xy> >Of Martin, Marc
> >Sent: Thursday, 12 July 2007 7:47 AM
> >To: BlackBox Mailing List
> >Subject: [BlackBox] - STDOUT - Niklaus, Niklaus, NIKLAUS!
> >
> >> How come the name Niklaus (Wirth presumably?) is in the subject? He
> >> didn't invent the Component Pascal language.
> >
> >Well, he was the one who removed READLN and WRITELN from 
> Modula-2 and 
> >Oberon, which Component Pascal is based.
> >
> 
> Yes - and for very good reason. Removing IO from the language 
> makes the
> compilers more portable / less OS-dependent. By moving IO 
> statements out of
> the compiler and into the libraries, porting the language to 
> new platforms
> means that the work of implementing IO facilities could be done by
> developers without compiler writing skills. 
> 
> He took the principle one step further with Oberon, and 
> attempted to make
> the whole operating platform portable. For the late 1980's 
> that was very
> prophetic. Only yesterday I was reading how VMs / virtualisation (e.g.
> VMWare, Virtual PC - not necessarily JVM or .NET) are the 
> 'next big thing'.
> 
> >Interestingly, the newer Zonnon language brings back READLN 
> >and WRITELN!  I don't know who's using this, though.  It 
> >doesn't appear that the compiler even corresponds to the 
> >latest definition of the language.
> >
> 
> I revisit Zonnon every few months - it has a lot of potential 
> but it isn't
> 'ready yet'. The primary attraction for me over Blackbox or 
> GPCP is its
> level of integration into Visual Studio 2005. However, from 
> what I know
> about the VS integration facilities, and experience I've had 
> beta-testing
> GPCP in VS 2003, I suspect this is a major cause of any implementation
> problems experienced by the developers.
> 
> >But anyway, I don't see what the big deal is... I've written 
> >codes in Pascal, Modula-2, Oberon-2, and Component Pascal, and 
> >the output files get written one way or another!  :-)
> >
> 
> Yes indeed. No offence intended to anyone but the saying 'A 
> poor workman
> always blames his tools' comes to mind. I am *currently* 
> actively writing
> code in Gardens Point Component Pascal, Delphi 2006, Blackbox 
> Component
> Pascal and, yes, Modula-2. The *KEY PRINCIPLE* to code reuse is to
> quarantine all of your UI / IO code into one or two separate 
> modules instead
> of having all of your modules littered with platform-specific 
> IO statements.
> 
> 
> Chris Burrows
> CFB Software
> http://www.cfbsoftware.com/gpcp
> 
> --- BlackBox
> --- send subject HELP or UNSUBSCRIBE to blackbox{([at]})nowhere.xy> 
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Received on Wed Aug 08 2007 - 12:10:48 UTC