----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1104530716_-_-
Content-type: text/plain
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blackbox{([at]})nowhere.xy> Behalf Of Bob Walkden
>
> 'Such people' have to make a living. I have been one of these
> people, and
> now I'm one of the bosses. We have 80 developers working for us. If we
> introduced BB, much as I'd like to, we would have to find or
> train 80 BB
> developers who would also be prepared to maintain the legacy
> software, and
> who would not be able to find another BB job anywhere. It's
> not going to
> happen.
Do you use the same tool for *all* 80 developers for *all* projects? Before
I became an independent software developer, I also was one of the bosses.
Despite the fact that our major application was written in C I was able to
develop two significant sub-applications in Modula-2. The end-user was not
aware of any difference.
If you have an appropriate minor side-project to do, try giving the task to
two separate developers one using your normal tool and the other using
BlackBox and compare the actual results.
This sort of thing needs a lot of critical mass and
> BB has missed
> the boat, until Microsoft decide to adopt it. When do you
> think that will
> be? The best that we can hope for is that enough Wirthians
> enter Microsoft
> Research to spread the spirit of Oberon from within.
>
Clemens Szyperski, one of the Component Pascal pioneers is certainly there:
http://research.microsoft.com/~cszypers/
Also Tony Hoare, one of Niklaus Wirth's collaborators from the really early
days. It is encouraging to se that the spirit of Oberon is showing through
with some of the Microsoft .NET initiatives. Additionally, Active Oberon,
Component Pascal and Zonnon are all available as .NET languages. The first
two at least had initial funding from Microsoft.
Chris Burrows
CFB Software
http://www.cfbsoftware.com/gpcp
--- BlackBox
--- send subject HELP or UNSUBSCRIBE to blackbox{([at]})nowhere.xy
----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1104530716_-_-
Content-type: application/rtf
Content-transfer-encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="rtf-body.rtf"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==
----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-1104530716_-_---
Received on Fri May 19 2006 - 02:27:28 UTC