- BB: The future: Is there one?

From: CFB Software <"CFB>
Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 18:02:51 +0930

----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-178883767_-_-
Content-type: text/plain

> -----Original Message-----
> From: blackbox{([at]})nowhere.xy
> Behalf Of Les May
> Subject: [BlackBox] - BB: The future: Is there one?
>
> FreePascal boasts of being 'write once compile anywhere' and
> is moving
> onto 64 bit processors. FreeBasic is available for DOS, Win
> and Linux.

'write once compile anywhere' is only really useful for writing software
with limited or no user-interaction. As soon as you have to deal with
GUI or other platform-dependent issues you get into trouble as each
different platform has a very different 'look and feel'. Many systems
use the lowest-common-denominator mediocre approach which is rarely
successful.

>
> I have never seen a query about 'Freestanding applications' on either
> website. It is just taken for granted that you can create them.
>

There is a big difference between making freestanding 'console
applications' with FreePascal and FreeBasic and making freestanding 'GUI
applications' with BlackBox which is what has been under discussion here
recently. I suspect that you would have seen many queries on the
FreePascal and FreeBasic websites on how to develop even the most basic
GUI program.

It is just as easy (difficult?) to use BB to program GUI applications in
the primitive way that you have to do it with FreePascal or FreeBasic -
by making direct calls to the Windows API. However, since the early
1990's this difficult approach has not been necessary. The more advanced
GUI development capabilities of systems such as Delphi and Visual Studio
are normally used. BlackBox lies somewhere between the two extremes.

Lazarus is the GUI part of FreePascal development. It was started seven
years ago and still has some way to go.

> The case sensitivity and the
> use of upper
> case for keywords is a nuisance. How nice it would be to have
> an editor
> which accepts any case and changes it to upper case automatically.
> Perhaps BB has one already and I just have not found it.
>

I wrote a keyword convertor that takes an existing text and converts all
of the lowercase Component Pascal keywords and reserved words to
uppercase. If you cannot find anything else and are interested I can
make it available.

> Why does BB generate such enthusiasm from its converts? Is it the
> framework for designing GUIs? Or is it the Component Pascal language
> which gives the user a high level of confidence that programs are
> correct and do exactly what they are intended to do?
>

For me - definitely the Oberon / Component Pascal language. Since most
of Pascal's language-related problems were rectified in Modula-2, and
later Oberon, I find it very irritating whenever I'm working with Pascal
(i.e. Delphi) these days. However, programming in Oberon / Component
Pascal can get a bit boring as it often works just right the first time.
You no longer get the masochistic satisfaction of tracking down obscure
runtime errors, crashes, access violations etc. that you inevitably get
with less safe languages!

For me, Oberon / Component Pascal represents an improvement on Modula-2.
Most of what I need is satisfied by the Gardens Point Component Pascal
system (GPCP). The .NET framework has got everything I've needed so far
in terms of GUI components, and the interactive debugger. For me,
BlackBox's strengths are its additional developer tools: the Post-mortem
debugger, Profiler, Analyser, Beautifier etc.

> One last thought. Is the future of BB already with us and
> called Zonnon?
>

Zonnon seems to have addressed many Oberon issues that Pascal devotees
complained about e.g. lowercase keywords are allowed, enumerated types
have returned, simple text IO (Read, Write) is once again part of the
language. It also has a couple of interesting new language features.

Apart from that it is not significantly different from GPCP. The fact
that both systems can be hosted in Visual Studio means that they can
potentially use the ready-made facilities of the IDE (forms designer,
syntax-directed editing, interactive debugging etc.) so the system
developers can mainly concentrate on getting the language and compiler
right. However, the VS-versions of both haven't emerged from beta-test
stage yet.

--
Chris Burrows
CFB Software
http://www.cfbsoftware.com/gpcp
--- BlackBox
--- send subject HELP or UNSUBSCRIBE to blackbox{([at]})nowhere.xy----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-178883767_-_-
Content-type: application/rtf
Content-transfer-encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="rtf-body.rtf"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----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-178883767_-_---

Received on Sun May 21 2006 - 10:32:51 UTC