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On Tue, 23 May 2006, Rex Couture wrote:
> "Programs" running under the BB environment serve only a very small fraction
> of potential end users.
Are you saing that the majority of potential end users need non-GUI
standalone programs?
> Yet the BB linker and packer are seriously unfinished.
They are both not very well documented. It is striking (and even
"bizzare") that linking is explained in one paragraph and one example
in the document "Help --> Platform-Specific Issues". Note the word
"issues". The title of the document is almost like "Platform-Specific
Nuisances". This is how the OMS treated this entire topic. It certainly
did not help with BB reception. Lots of the BB potential went unrealized
for years simply because it was not explained how to use the lower-level
tools that are there all the time. Like for example the linker.
> It should be possible to create a freestanding executable with one or
> two keystrokes, and the linker should not link unusued code.
> In practice, it is exceedingly difficult to create an .exe file, and
> that .exe file will likely consist mostly of unused code.
A while ago OMS sent me an example of how to link a small .exe file
in order to test the DLL loading. The example consisted of four WinApi
calls executed in sequence. None of the BB framework was linked. The
executable was built with one keystroke and its size was 4 kB. This is
about as small as the executable can get. The program would try to locate
the DLL, load it, and popup a small window reporting success/failure
of the operation.
I am sure in many cases you would want to build executables like that
and distribute them as a part of a larger collection of Windows
executables. As the DLL test program has shown, BB is fully capable
of doing such things, but the potential was never widely known.
I would say that any reasonable software company would post such
support cases on their website in order to build a portfolio of solutions
to common customer questions. Not our OMS friends, though. They spent
their time on "private" support and completely missed an opportunity
to support a broader user community by posting the answers.
> BB lacks standard I/O libraries, as do many Wirth languages.
Strongly disagreed. BB has I/O libraries that are "standard"
in the sense of being a "standard" part of the framework.
What BB lacks is documentation and examples how to use these
libraries in a *conventional* way. You have used a wrong word.
"Conventional" should be the word. Such conventional I/O can be
assembled from the BB standard library calls as yet another
module. If that module became popular then it would become
a de-facto standard for many users, just like In and Out became
such a de-facto standard. We probably would keep complaining about
the conventional I/O, and probably would keep using it anyway.
> There are the Oakwood standards, but BB ignores them. They are only
> very partially implemented in BB, by a third party.
Well, then we have an action item at last: implement the Oakwood
standards. Any takers?
> Portability is undeniably needed, yet BB cannot even read or write an
> integer with portable code (or at the very least, it's problematic).
Portability of the BB to other OSs, or portability of data files
between the implementations? The latter has to follow the former,
do not you think? How can you say "cannot even read or write an
integer with portable code" if BB itself is not portable (yet)?
> BB is very good for GUI programs in the BB environment,
> but not as good for non-BB or non-GUI applications.
It was a deliberate OMS decision to emphasize the BB environment
as the hosting environment for "components". They envisioned
the "component market" for which BB would become a carrier.
This has proven to be a wrong vision, after which OMS got burnt
and did not find a replacement vision. We are now having this
discussion about finding a replacement vision for the one
that did not work too well. (It worked in a technical sense,
but not in a business sense.)
> We are told that sequential output is old-fashioned,
> and its use is discouraged in programs.
This kind of philosophy is akin to "platform-specific issues".
Both the sequential I/O and the "issues" are facts of life that need
be supported even if the system architects have a differing opinion.
> What is a potential user to do? Should one invest heavily and develop
> libraries and skills just for BB GUI programs, and then duplicate
> libraries and skills with other languages for other computing needs?
I think that the architects of every computing environment are trying
to capture its users into a net of dependencies. It is no different
with M$ or Linux. Once you are trapped, you are trapped. BB is no
different. You invest your time, you learn it, it is effective,
then why complain? Are Linux developers complaining that developing
Linux skills would need be duplicated elsewhere? Not at all. Linux
developers are proud of being part of Linux movement. They are trapped
just like anybody else is trapped in their little worlds. But most
Linux developers are both proud and militant, while some BB developers
are apologetic. In fact, there is no need for either. Learning any tool
creates some sort of dependence.
> It appears that some BB users do exactly that, but most people cannot
> afford that luxury.
Like I said, the investment in learnig any complex tool is substantial.
If you want to be good at something, you *have* to afford the luxury
of learnig that "something". The question then becomes: are you accepting
the investment as being unavoidable, or are you apologetic that you have
invested your time? It is too bad some of us are apologetic. There is
no need.
> Quite honestly, BB still seems a bit unfinished for general use.
No development software system is ever finished. If you think it
was finished, then 64-bit processors will arrive, and then 128-bit
processors, and what you thought was finished is again unfinished.
The question is not how to finish, but rather how to create
a sustainable development effort.
Some BB parts are not well documented, and more examples would be
needed, as well as a good cross-referenced web site with examples
and technical answers. That for sure. Then a whole list of other
things, as already discussed.
And please remember the 4kB .exe file I just mentioned. The
capabilities are there, but they are not well known.
W.
--- BlackBox
--- send subject HELP or UNSUBSCRIBE to blackbox{([at]})nowhere.xy
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----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-81126604_-_---
Received on Tue May 23 2006 - 23:15:58 UTC