BlackBox on Linux - was: RE: BlackBox source code 'improvements'

From: Treutwein Bernhard <"Treutwein>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 08:55:27 +0100

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Hi All,

>
> >
> > -- Keep doing improvements and discuss these in the mailing list.
> >
> > -- If the improvement seems substantial, send it to OMS.
> >
> > -- Remember the fate of Unified Oberon V4 and why it collapsed.
> >
> > -- Ask yourself if you want to be the "gatekeeper" on top of
> > your current workload. If the answer is "no", please do not
> > bother to suggest anybody else will take this role.
> >

> > -- Do not spend bandwidth discussing would-be efforts on the scale
> > of Linux, unless you have the resources to make it happen.
> >
>
> An excellent summary of the situation, Wotjek! I agree 110%.
>

since 110% are already above my goals, I cannot top that.

Furthermore I see some more problems:

Even if we would have a "gatekeeper" for a specific problem,
a concurrent versioning system (be it CVS or subversion)
would AFAIK have problems to deal with BlackBox binary files.

So a first step would be to transform *.odc files into some
XML based format, which could allow for standard representation
of active contents (like folds and other embedded stuff
like grafics).

---------------------------------------------------
Since I currently do not see enough spare time to play
a coordinating rule, I do not want to suggest a project,
but I do want to put some information to our community
which might be of interest for someone, who has the time:

1. There are working prototypes for a Linux port at
   Oberon Microsystems (I cite and translate a mail
   I got from Marc Frei):

> From: support{([at]})nowhere.xy
[...]
> Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 09:33:19 +0100
[...]
> Zu Linux (auf Intel): Wie Du ja weisst, haben wir eine
> Prototypen-Implementierung einer kleinen Teilmenge von
> BlackBox auf einer alten GNOME Version. Im Wesentlichen
> handelt es sich um den Kernel (mit Garbage Collector),
> Files, HostFiles und StdLoader.

  Re Linux (on Intel):
  --------------------
  As you know, we have a prototype implementation of a
  small subset of BlackBox based on an outdated version
  of GNOME. Essentially it is Kernel (with garbage
  collector), Files, HostFiles, and StdLoader.

> Ein neuer Compiler ist nicht nötig, da es sich
> ja ebenfalls um Intel-Prozessoren handelt.
> Was das GUI anbetrifft, haben wir einige Dinge
> -- die sind aber in einem extrem frühen Stadium.
>
> Alles in allem handelt es sich bei diesen Modulen
> noch nicht um Software mit Produkt-Qualität. Deshalb
> haben wir sie auch nicht publiziert. Eine eigentliche
> Portierung wäre sehr aufwendig. Vor allem die Einbindung
> von Native-Controls kann ein eigentlicher Alptraum
> werden. Der Job ist zwar machbar (siehe z.B. HostCFrames
> auf Windows) braucht aber sehr viel Zeit, Motivation
> und Ausdauer.
>

  There is no need for a new compiler since it
  is targeted also for Intel CPUs. Concerning
  the GUI: We have some stuff -- but this stuff

  is in a very early stage.

  Overall these modules are not software in production
  quality, therefore we did not publish them.
  A complete port would be very laborious. Especially
  the interfacing to the native controls can transform
  into a real nightmare. Although the job is feasible
  (see HostCFrames under Windows), it needs really a lot
  of time, motivation and patience.

> Grundsätzlich sind wir an einer Linux-Version für
> BlackBox interessiert. Voraussetzung ist, dass diese
> 100% binär-kompatibel mit der Windows-Version ist.

  In principle, we are interested in a Linux version
  of BlackBox. Precondition is that the Linux version
  is 100% binary compatible with the Windows version.

Comment: I guess that this means that you could take
any ocf/osf file from the Linux version to the Windows
version and use it there, given this file does not
import any low level modules directly. To my knowledge
all interfaces to the underlying OS are implemented
with (dynamically replaceable) factory methods (in
BlackBox terminology "directory objects"). Citing
from BlackBox Documentation "Design Practices":

- In BlackBox, factory objects are used in a -
- particular way: they are installed in global -
- variables and may be replaced at run-time, -
- without affecting client code. For historical -
- reasons, we call factory objects which are -
- used for configuration purposes directory -
- objects. -

> Zudem soll es eine robuste und angemessen saubere
> Implementierung werden. Deshalb würden wir unsere
> Dinge einem Einzelnen oder einer Gruppe als
> Startpunkt für ein solches Projekt übergeben,
> falls sich das jemand zutraut.

  Moreover it should be a robust and sufficiently
  clean implementation. Therefore we would make our

  stuff available as a starting point for such a
  project to a single person or a group, if there
  is anybody, who accepts that dare.

> Die Module sollten
> dann aber nicht open-source sein sondern eben
> lediglich eine Grundlage für neue Implementierungen
> darstellen.
>
  The modules should not be considered as open-source
  but only be the base for a new implementation.

Comment/Question:

I do not clearly understand this. Does it mean that
the starting point should be considered as closed
source or (that is the way I understand it):
The starting point is a foundation, on which the
Open-Source version should be contructed by
some (software) architects.

> Falls Du Interesse daran hast, ein solches Projekt
> loszutreten, schicken wir Dir gerne, was wir haben.
>

  If you are interested to push such a project, we
  are happy to send you, what we have.

---------------------------------------------------
Now looping back to the beginning:

I fear I won't have the time for coordinating, but
I think this information should not be hidden in
my private mail.

regards and
best wishes for the just started new year
--
  Bernhard Treutwein
  ------------------
  Work: Bernhard Treutwein (at) verwaltung uni-muenchen de
  ----------------------------------------------
  Home: BdT (at) wildwein de
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----boundary-LibPST-iamunique-439953564_-_---
Received on Wed Jan 12 2005 - 08:55:27 UTC

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