Re: Something is missing in Component Pascal

From: [at]} <Wojtek>
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:46:38 -0400 (EDT)

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> Wolfgang wrote:

> Having read your recent contributions to the BlackBox mailinglist I would
> like to emphasize some important points:
>
> 1) Turning stack-allocated record objects into pointers that can be stored
> in heap objects is outright live-threatening. Next time the garbage
> collector runs, BlackBox will most likely vanish from your screen, because
> stack objects are collected upon return of the containing procedure.
> That's why the language does not support this.

I stand corrected concerning the GC. But I am still not sure concerning
the other side of it, being able to pass the record to a procedure which
expects a pointer. You are doing just that with VAR parameters, do not
you? I want to ask, what is the difference between the following two
declarations, and why does #1 not allow being called with a VAR record?

   1. PROCEDURE proc1 (p: POINTER TO r);
   2. PROCEDURE proc2 (VAR vr: r);

I think in case #2 internally you are using the address, same with #1.
Why cannot I just use both the same way? I mean, having your Stores.Join
which expects a pointer, I would pass it something like ^r or just
plain r, and the compiler would know that I mean VAR r, which is allowed
by the language. What is wrong with this idea?

> 2) Your question indicates that you keep walking deeper and deeper
> into a maze that has no exit and that you should not have entered
> in the first place.

I just sent you a finished application yesterday. I agree it was a maze,
but I have no choice. I have to do it. I entered the maze partly because
one has to start from somewhere, and the place I choose to enter quickly
lead me into a mess. In retrospect, I started there because of my desire
to use the supplied Dialog/Control automation, which is great for rapid
development. But it only works with static records, the way it is presented
in the docu and in the examples. I know Gerard has chosen a different
starting point, and he succeded, what to me looks like magic. I am not
expert enough to accomplish what he did.

> To store the data you are displaying in your dialog the example
> posted by Marc Matin is absolutely the right approach here,

I have not seen his posting. I am subscribed to weekly digests. I now
want to change this to immediate response, but not sure how to tell
the list server I want to change my subscription. Perhaps a human
operator has to administer the change. In any case, I finished
the application before I saw his posting. What was it?

> 3) To store data you can use Stores.Writer and Reader
> (i.e. the Rider concept) without having to create a Stores.Store.
> Just process the record field by field and call the appropriate rider
> methods. On a first glimpse, this field-wise writing may seem
> inconvenient, but when using a Stores.Store you'll have to do exactly
> the same thing just at a different place: in the Externalize method.

I sort of did this, but partially. In fact I am using Stores because
my objects are stores, and rewriting the entire Gr to do what you
say is not practical. Not to mention my plans to use Lib in future.
So I am reusing the Stores mechanism by asking the object to write
itself to the file. It works. Otherwise the file is just what you say.
It is a data file, and it will not load itself into BB when clicked on.
(It would be interesting to know why exactly, and how to change this.)
So I changed the extension from .odc to .pom just to let the user know
this is not a regular BlackBox document.

Using Stores has of course opened the Pandora box of Domains, and
this is where the maze has started. I solved it somehow, but this is
the most messy part of my application, and I am not happy with what
I did. Quite likely the .pom data file has duplicate objects in it
because of domains. I am not sure what to do with this. I will have
to live with the fact for the time being.

The application will be posted to the CPC as soon as we use it to do
something practical. I can send the pre-release version on request
to anybody interested. The abstract is attached below. The application
is important to us to develop data acquisition systems. I have written
it such it is also a practical illustration of how to do such things.
BlackBox is badly lacking such nontrivial examples. The examples
supplied with the environment are too small to be good starting points
to get development done quickly. I recall, that Turbo Pascal had
several valuable nontrivial examples: the MicroCalc spreadsheet,
the Turbo Database Toolbox example database, and the Turbo Editor
Toolbox had two practical editors built using it, and so on. These
were extremely useful as templates, or just by themselves. I am
hoping that my POM can be useful as a starting point for some other
(un)related development.

Thank you for all your help and comments.

Wojtek
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Summary:
The Persistent Object Manager (POM) is a tool to organize several
objects such as histograms into a tree structure, which is presented
on-screen to the user in the form of a tree window similar to the Windows
Explorer. The user can open graphical views of collected data by
double-clicking on the object icons. The entire tree can be saved to disk
as a binary file with an extension ".pom". The data file can be read back
into the POM at a later time. Arbitrary objects can be managed by POM, but
only so-called "persistent objects" can be written to disk and read back.
Examples of such persistent objects include the Gr histograms which are
provided by the Gr subsystem. The interface of the POM to the Gr, as well
as a demo program, are both provided. Other types of objects can be
managed as well, provided that a very simple interface code is written by
the user. POM is optimized for the ease of use by the application
programmer. The projected application of POM are data acquisition and data
analysis, where several dozens histograms and other graphical objects will
be used to collect data and present the results to the user.





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Received on Fri Jul 04 2003 - 17:46:38 UTC